proposa: Microsoft Windows pre-installed with NVDA

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proposa: Microsoft Windows pre-installed with NVDA

Bhavya shah
Dear all,
Recently a petition was created for Microsoft to create a fully
functional screen reader built into the OS.
There was a debate on the subject, and people proposed, instead of
Microsoft improving Narrator, why not get rid of Narrator and replace
it with NVDA, so that blind people can enable a screen reader on any
computer just by a single keystroke?
Could someone throw some light, on the this matter?

--
Warm Regards
Bhavya
Let me wish you a very Happy New Year before the phone lines get
jammed and internet hanged. Happy New Year 2015 !
Reach me through the following means:
Mobile: +91 7506221750
Telephone: +022 23076950
E-mail id: [hidden email]
Skype id : bhavya.09

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Re: proposa: Microsoft Windows pre-installed with NVDA

Brandon Keith Biggs
Hello,
I would vote for it, but I'm not sure if it would quite work thanks to licenses, the fact NVDA is not in C++ and the fact that NVDA is a little too big to start when the computer first starts or in bios (I think).
But if this were to happen, NV access would need to be very very very careful as this is when lots of money comes into play.
Jaws would be for ever pushed under if this happened though.
But hey, I'm for it!
thanks,

On 1/8/2015 5:38 PM, Bhavya shah wrote:
Dear all,
Recently a petition was created for Microsoft to create a fully
functional screen reader built into the OS.
There was a debate on the subject, and people proposed, instead of
Microsoft improving Narrator, why not get rid of Narrator and replace
it with NVDA, so that blind people can enable a screen reader on any
computer just by a single keystroke?
Could someone throw some light, on the this matter?



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Re: proposa: Microsoft Windows pre-installed with NVDA

Brian's Mail list account BY
In reply to this post by Bhavya shah
Hmm, well I don't know how that would work with a commercial product of such
a big company.
 It has been said that nvda is not written in C, but parts of it are of
course.

 I think the current  system will be what happens, as I cannot see Microsoft
wanting to do this.
 Lets face it with their clout they could very easily have done this with
Window Eyes instead of bumdling it with Office and they chose not to do so.
 Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Bhavya shah" <[hidden email]>
To: "NVDA screen reader development" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2015 4:38 PM
Subject: [Nvda-devel] proposa: Microsoft Windows pre-installed with NVDA


> Dear all,
> Recently a petition was created for Microsoft to create a fully
> functional screen reader built into the OS.
> There was a debate on the subject, and people proposed, instead of
> Microsoft improving Narrator, why not get rid of Narrator and replace
> it with NVDA, so that blind people can enable a screen reader on any
> computer just by a single keystroke?
> Could someone throw some light, on the this matter?
>
> --
> Warm Regards
> Bhavya
> Let me wish you a very Happy New Year before the phone lines get
> jammed and internet hanged. Happy New Year 2015 !
> Reach me through the following means:
> Mobile: +91 7506221750
> Telephone: +022 23076950
> E-mail id: [hidden email]
> Skype id : bhavya.09
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Dive into the World of Parallel Programming! The Go Parallel Website,
> sponsored by Intel and developed in partnership with Slashdot Media, is
> your
> hub for all things parallel software development, from weekly thought
> leadership blogs to news, videos, case studies, tutorials and more. Take a
> look and join the conversation now. http://goparallel.sourceforge.net
> _______________________________________________
> Nvda-devel mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/nvda-devel 


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Re: proposa: Microsoft Windows pre-installed with NVDA

Heiko Folkerts
In reply to this post by Bhavya shah
Hi,
well I Think NVDA should be the reader of choice in this case since many of
us use it often and know the Keystrokes etc. I guess Narrator will never be
a fully functional xcreen reader and ist no real alternative. It could be
used to run the installation of windows etc. but things get complicated when
you have to read text that is not at the crusor.

I don't think that it is a problem that NVDA is made with python since the
binary version is a bunc of DLLs and a exe and the python specific things
are compiled in.

Instead of making such system on our own MS should include NvDA in their
version of Windows. But this may cause trouble with other xcreen reader
vendors since people no longer would need them on a system. It is like the
internet explorer for which MS had trouble for integrating it into windows.

Heiko


-----Urspr√ľngliche Nachricht-----
Von: Bhavya shah [mailto:[hidden email]]
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 8. Januar 2015 17:38
An: NVDA screen reader development
Betreff: [Nvda-devel] proposa: Microsoft Windows pre-installed with NVDA

Dear all,
Recently a petition was created for Microsoft to create a fully
functional screen reader built into the OS.
There was a debate on the subject, and people proposed, instead of
Microsoft improving Narrator, why not get rid of Narrator and replace
it with NVDA, so that blind people can enable a screen reader on any
computer just by a single keystroke?
Could someone throw some light, on the this matter?

--
Warm Regards
Bhavya
Let me wish you a very Happy New Year before the phone lines get
jammed and internet hanged. Happy New Year 2015 !
Reach me through the following means:
Mobile: +91 7506221750
Telephone: +022 23076950
E-mail id: [hidden email]
Skype id : bhavya.09

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: proposa: Microsoft Windows pre-installed with NVDA

Bhavya shah
Hi,
I feel, and its my opinion only, that this is an important question.
Mick and Jamie; Please could you share your thoughts on this, if possible?
Some pertinent questions:
Would NV Access agree to give NVDA to be included in Microsoft Windows?
Would Microsoft accept the proposal of bundling NVDA with Microsoft Windows?
According to some of my readings, Microsoft does fund NV Access, could
this simplify or complicate things?
Would, and if yes then how much, effort or modifications would need to
be made in NVDA to behave like a native screen reader?
Would it be possible to bundle NVDA with Microsoft Windows, yet be
eligible to receive updates to newer versions/releases? In Android,
Talkback is a pre-installed screen reader, yet is an independent
component, i.e. it is updated externally, rather than only when
Android updates.
If this proposal is accepted, then could the Video Intercept driver be
considered to be integrated into NVDA? I have very limited knowledge
about the Video Intercept driver, except that it affects portability.
Since in this proposal NVDA is going to be pre-installed, there is no
question of portability, so the question remains; are the advantages
of this Video Intercept worth the implementation efforts? This is a
question that needs to be answered later.
Hope you would not mind, and could answer as and when you get time.
Thank you, and I too doubt that Narrator will be improved by
Microsoft, replacing it with NVDA would be a better alternative, in my
view, others' opinions may differ...

On 1/9/15, Heiko Folkerts <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi,
> well I Think NVDA should be the reader of choice in this case since many of
> us use it often and know the Keystrokes etc. I guess Narrator will never be
> a fully functional xcreen reader and ist no real alternative. It could be
> used to run the installation of windows etc. but things get complicated
> when
> you have to read text that is not at the crusor.
>
> I don't think that it is a problem that NVDA is made with python since the
> binary version is a bunc of DLLs and a exe and the python specific things
> are compiled in.
>
> Instead of making such system on our own MS should include NvDA in their
> version of Windows. But this may cause trouble with other xcreen reader
> vendors since people no longer would need them on a system. It is like the
> internet explorer for which MS had trouble for integrating it into windows.
>
> Heiko
>
>
> -----Urspr√ľngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: Bhavya shah [mailto:[hidden email]]
> Gesendet: Donnerstag, 8. Januar 2015 17:38
> An: NVDA screen reader development
> Betreff: [Nvda-devel] proposa: Microsoft Windows pre-installed with NVDA
>
> Dear all,
> Recently a petition was created for Microsoft to create a fully
> functional screen reader built into the OS.
> There was a debate on the subject, and people proposed, instead of
> Microsoft improving Narrator, why not get rid of Narrator and replace
> it with NVDA, so that blind people can enable a screen reader on any
> computer just by a single keystroke?
> Could someone throw some light, on the this matter?
>
> --
> Warm Regards
> Bhavya
> Let me wish you a very Happy New Year before the phone lines get
> jammed and internet hanged. Happy New Year 2015 !
> Reach me through the following means:
> Mobile: +91 7506221750
> Telephone: +022 23076950
> E-mail id: [hidden email]
> Skype id : bhavya.09
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
> Dive into the World of Parallel Programming! The Go Parallel Website,
> sponsored by Intel and developed in partnership with Slashdot Media, is
> your
> hub for all things parallel software development, from weekly thought
> leadership blogs to news, videos, case studies, tutorials and more. Take a
> look and join the conversation now. http://goparallel.sourceforge.net
> _______________________________________________
> Nvda-devel mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/nvda-devel
>


--
Warm Regards
Bhavya
Let me wish you a very Happy New Year before the phone lines get
jammed and internet hanged. Happy New Year 2015 !
Reach me through the following means:
Mobile: +91 7506221750
Telephone: +022 23076950
E-mail id: [hidden email]
Skype id : bhavya.09

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leadership blogs to news, videos, case studies, tutorials and more. Take a
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Re: proposa: Microsoft Windows pre-installed with NVDA

John Isige
I'd like to take a crack at a couple of them, just for fun.

"Would, and if yes then how much, effort or modifications would need to
be made in NVDA to behave like a native screen reader?"

What in the world does this mean? How would NVDA behave differently? I
mean, if NVDA is installed, you start it up, and get a screen reader. So
I'm trying to figure out what it would or could do differently if it
were a "native screen reader".

"If this proposal is accepted, then could the Video Intercept driver be
considered to be integrated into NVDA? I have very limited knowledge
about the Video Intercept driver, except that it affects portability.
Since in this proposal NVDA is going to be pre-installed, there is no
question of portability, so the question remains; are the advantages
of this Video Intercept worth the implementation efforts? This is a
question that needs to be answered later."

Again, I have a question. What are the actual advantages of a video
intercept driver? Under XP I think JFW could access things NVDA
couldn't, but since I've started using Windows 8.1, where the way video
drivers work has changed, I haven't found a situation yet where JFW
could get at something NVDA couldn't. Every time I was in a program that
NVDA couldn't deal with, JFW couldn't deal with it in the exact same
way. If tabbing didn't work in NVDA, it didn't work in JFW either. If
NVDA's screen review couldn't see text, the jaws cursor couldn't see
text either. If NVDA saw a bunch of unlabeled buttons, JFW saw a bunch
of unlabeled buttons, and so on.

I'm not saying there aren't advantages, it's just that I think this is
one of those things people trot out, oh NVDA doesn't have this, we need
to fix that, why can't it have one too? I've yet to see anybody make an
argument as to why NVDA actually would be better with a video intercept
driver. Based on my own experience at least, I don't see much of a
difference. Obviously I don't have experience with everything though, so
I'm not suggesting that because I don't see a difference, it doesn't
exist. But it seems to me in both cases, native screen reader and video
intercept, it's just sort of assumed that if NVDA did those, NVDA would
be better. Why? What could it do that it can't do now?

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Re: proposa: Microsoft Windows pre-installed with NVDA

Bhavya shah
Hi,
I asked 'would' and not directly 'how much' efforts. I too am unsure
whether NVDA would need modifications to become a native screen
reader.
I too am unsure whether the Video Intercept driver is truly
advantageous over the NVDA screen review and object navigation
combined. If the Video Intercept driver is advatageous, then the
question arises, is it worth the fforts to integrate the Video
Intercept driver. Lets keep this Video Intercept question for future
discussion. Lets hear the devs' comments on the other questions first.
Thanks for your response

On 1/10/15, John Schucker <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I'd like to take a crack at a couple of them, just for fun.
>
> "Would, and if yes then how much, effort or modifications would need to
> be made in NVDA to behave like a native screen reader?"
>
> What in the world does this mean? How would NVDA behave differently? I
> mean, if NVDA is installed, you start it up, and get a screen reader. So
> I'm trying to figure out what it would or could do differently if it
> were a "native screen reader".
>
> "If this proposal is accepted, then could the Video Intercept driver be
> considered to be integrated into NVDA? I have very limited knowledge
> about the Video Intercept driver, except that it affects portability.
> Since in this proposal NVDA is going to be pre-installed, there is no
> question of portability, so the question remains; are the advantages
> of this Video Intercept worth the implementation efforts? This is a
> question that needs to be answered later."
>
> Again, I have a question. What are the actual advantages of a video
> intercept driver? Under XP I think JFW could access things NVDA
> couldn't, but since I've started using Windows 8.1, where the way video
> drivers work has changed, I haven't found a situation yet where JFW
> could get at something NVDA couldn't. Every time I was in a program that
> NVDA couldn't deal with, JFW couldn't deal with it in the exact same
> way. If tabbing didn't work in NVDA, it didn't work in JFW either. If
> NVDA's screen review couldn't see text, the jaws cursor couldn't see
> text either. If NVDA saw a bunch of unlabeled buttons, JFW saw a bunch
> of unlabeled buttons, and so on.
>
> I'm not saying there aren't advantages, it's just that I think this is
> one of those things people trot out, oh NVDA doesn't have this, we need
> to fix that, why can't it have one too? I've yet to see anybody make an
> argument as to why NVDA actually would be better with a video intercept
> driver. Based on my own experience at least, I don't see much of a
> difference. Obviously I don't have experience with everything though, so
> I'm not suggesting that because I don't see a difference, it doesn't
> exist. But it seems to me in both cases, native screen reader and video
> intercept, it's just sort of assumed that if NVDA did those, NVDA would
> be better. Why? What could it do that it can't do now?
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Dive into the World of Parallel Programming! The Go Parallel Website,
> sponsored by Intel and developed in partnership with Slashdot Media, is
> your
> hub for all things parallel software development, from weekly thought
> leadership blogs to news, videos, case studies, tutorials and more. Take a
> look and join the conversation now. http://goparallel.sourceforge.net
> _______________________________________________
> Nvda-devel mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/nvda-devel
>


--
Warm Regards
Bhavya
Let me wish you a very Happy New Year before the phone lines get
jammed and internet hanged. Happy New Year 2015 !
Reach me through the following means:
Mobile: +91 7506221750
Telephone: +022 23076950
E-mail id: [hidden email]
Skype id : bhavya.09

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Re: proposa: Microsoft Windows pre-installed with NVDA

Sarah Alawami
In reply to this post by Brandon Keith Biggs
There already is such a thing. Look up Chris smart's talking windows installer. It uses nvda to do just what you want it to do.

Blessings.

Sarah k Alawami: Owner of Alawami Productions, where quality is key. 

On Jan 8, 2015, at 9:29 AM, Brandon Keith Biggs <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hello,
I would vote for it, but I'm not sure if it would quite work thanks to licenses, the fact NVDA is not in C++ and the fact that NVDA is a little too big to start when the computer first starts or in bios (I think).
But if this were to happen, NV access would need to be very very very careful as this is when lots of money comes into play.
Jaws would be for ever pushed under if this happened though.
But hey, I'm for it!
thanks,

On 1/8/2015 5:38 PM, Bhavya shah wrote:
Dear all,
Recently a petition was created for Microsoft to create a fully
functional screen reader built into the OS.
There was a debate on the subject, and people proposed, instead of
Microsoft improving Narrator, why not get rid of Narrator and replace
it with NVDA, so that blind people can enable a screen reader on any
computer just by a single keystroke?
Could someone throw some light, on the this matter?


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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sponsored by Intel and developed in partnership with Slashdot Media, is your
hub for all things parallel software development, from weekly thought
leadership blogs to news, videos, case studies, tutorials and more. Take a
look and join the conversation now. http://goparallel.sourceforge.net_______________________________________________
Nvda-devel mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/nvda-devel


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Re: proposa: Microsoft Windows pre-installed with NVDA

Moodley, Deenadayalan

Hi,

 

It is Bryan smart and not cris.

 

Thanks.

 

From: Sarah k Alawami [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: 10 January 2015 01:00 PM
To: NVDA screen reader development
Subject: Re: [Nvda-devel] proposa: Microsoft Windows pre-installed with NVDA

 

There already is such a thing. Look up Chris smart's talking windows installer. It uses nvda to do just what you want it to do.

 

Blessings.

 

Sarah k Alawami: Owner of Alawami Productions, where quality is key. 

 

On Jan 8, 2015, at 9:29 AM, Brandon Keith Biggs <[hidden email]> wrote:

 

Hello,
I would vote for it, but I'm not sure if it would quite work thanks to licenses, the fact NVDA is not in C++ and the fact that NVDA is a little too big to start when the computer first starts or in bios (I think).
But if this were to happen, NV access would need to be very very very careful as this is when lots of money comes into play.
Jaws would be for ever pushed under if this happened though.
But hey, I'm for it!
thanks,

On 1/8/2015 5:38 PM, Bhavya shah wrote:

Dear all,
Recently a petition was created for Microsoft to create a fully
functional screen reader built into the OS.
There was a debate on the subject, and people proposed, instead of
Microsoft improving Narrator, why not get rid of Narrator and replace
it with NVDA, so that blind people can enable a screen reader on any
computer just by a single keystroke?
Could someone throw some light, on the this matter?
 

 

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