The empty nvda pane syndrome

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The empty nvda pane syndrome

Brian's Mail list account BY
Hi I have noticed a few starts of the latest stable nvda where at machine
start it leaves a pane called nvda on the screen, which cannot be closed. It
can be minimised though and then nvda seems to still work OK including
strangely  bringing up the nvda menu from the tray icon.
 In the old days of course this kind of strange extra window would prohibit
the starting of the menus, showing what was going on and it then needed a
reboot, with no closing tones and a delay to get it to work again. this does
not seem to be the case here, however. Thus far I've not investigated it
further by trying to see what nvda itself thinks this strange window is that
one cannot close.
 The machine is running Windows 7 home premium, and in other respects is
just normal with an I5 processor at 3.2gig and four  gigs of memory.


Next time it occurs I'll try and wsee what happens. I was more interested in
getting it to install windows updates as the user had confused the poor
thing.
 Brian

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Re: The empty nvda pane syndrome

coffeekingms@hotmail.com
hi

This happens hear on windows 10 insider preview build 14986, although
not that often. I've tried the usual nvda+f1 shortcut to examine it, but
I can't make sense of the output other than it doesn't seem to be
accessible.

Thanks

Kendell CLark



On 12/24/2016 3:17 AM, Brian's Mail list account BY wrote:

> Hi I have noticed a few starts of the latest stable nvda where at machine
> start it leaves a pane called nvda on the screen, which cannot be closed. It
> can be minimised though and then nvda seems to still work OK including
> strangely  bringing up the nvda menu from the tray icon.
>   In the old days of course this kind of strange extra window would prohibit
> the starting of the menus, showing what was going on and it then needed a
> reboot, with no closing tones and a delay to get it to work again. this does
> not seem to be the case here, however. Thus far I've not investigated it
> further by trying to see what nvda itself thinks this strange window is that
> one cannot close.
>   The machine is running Windows 7 home premium, and in other respects is
> just normal with an I5 processor at 3.2gig and four  gigs of memory.
>
>
> Next time it occurs I'll try and wsee what happens. I was more interested in
> getting it to install windows updates as the user had confused the poor
> thing.
>   Brian
>
> [hidden email]
> Sent via blueyonder.
> Please address personal email to:-
> [hidden email], putting 'Brian Gaff'
> in the display name field.
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> Order your platform today.http://sdm.link/intel
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> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/nvda-devel


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Re: The empty nvda pane syndrome

Brian Gaff Lineone downstairs
If it is the same as the old one we used to see, slow start up of nvda
usually made it more likely.
 I'll look at it later on, Its only just started after this months windows 7
updates, and the update to the update to fix the windows update running all
the time problem it created the first time... grin.

 Brian

[hidden email]
Brian Gaff's other account.

----- Original Message -----
From: <[hidden email]>
To: "NVDA screen reader development" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Sunday, December 25, 2016 5:41 PM
Subject: Re: [Nvda-devel] The empty nvda pane syndrome


> hi
>
> This happens hear on windows 10 insider preview build 14986, although
> not that often. I've tried the usual nvda+f1 shortcut to examine it, but
> I can't make sense of the output other than it doesn't seem to be
> accessible.
>
> Thanks
>
> Kendell CLark
>
>
>
> On 12/24/2016 3:17 AM, Brian's Mail list account BY wrote:
>> Hi I have noticed a few starts of the latest stable nvda where at machine
>> start it leaves a pane called nvda on the screen, which cannot be closed.
>> It
>> can be minimised though and then nvda seems to still work OK including
>> strangely  bringing up the nvda menu from the tray icon.
>>   In the old days of course this kind of strange extra window would
>> prohibit
>> the starting of the menus, showing what was going on and it then needed a
>> reboot, with no closing tones and a delay to get it to work again. this
>> does
>> not seem to be the case here, however. Thus far I've not investigated it
>> further by trying to see what nvda itself thinks this strange window is
>> that
>> one cannot close.
>>   The machine is running Windows 7 home premium, and in other respects is
>> just normal with an I5 processor at 3.2gig and four  gigs of memory.
>>
>>
>> Next time it occurs I'll try and wsee what happens. I was more interested
>> in
>> getting it to install windows updates as the user had confused the poor
>> thing.
>>   Brian
>>
>> [hidden email]
>> Sent via blueyonder.
>> Please address personal email to:-
>> [hidden email], putting 'Brian Gaff'
>> in the display name field.
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Developer Access Program for Intel Xeon Phi Processors
>> Access to Intel Xeon Phi processor-based developer platforms.
>> With one year of Intel Parallel Studio XE.
>> Training and support from Colfax.
>> Order your platform today.http://sdm.link/intel
>> _______________________________________________
>> Nvda-devel mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/nvda-devel
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> Access to Intel Xeon Phi processor-based developer platforms.
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Re: The empty nvda pane syndrome

Brian's Mail list account BY
In reply to this post by coffeekingms@hotmail.com
Not had time to look as yet but my feeling on windows 7 is that its only
started since the last windows update. Whether its made the nvda load time
longer or what, I have no idea. I'm sure those watching windows updates will
have noticed, particularly in single core processor machines that update
kept grabbing more and  more processor time even after you had them all
installed via svchost.exe
 I noticed that by leaving these machines on for a couple of hours another
update has finally installed and  stopped that particular problem again.


Probably not related, but I did notice it, but as I say this effect of the
extra pane is intermittent and hence very hard to pin down.
 Brian

[hidden email]
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
[hidden email], putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: <[hidden email]>
To: "NVDA screen reader development" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Sunday, December 25, 2016 5:41 PM
Subject: Re: [Nvda-devel] The empty nvda pane syndrome


> hi
>
> This happens hear on windows 10 insider preview build 14986, although
> not that often. I've tried the usual nvda+f1 shortcut to examine it, but
> I can't make sense of the output other than it doesn't seem to be
> accessible.
>
> Thanks
>
> Kendell CLark
>
>
>
> On 12/24/2016 3:17 AM, Brian's Mail list account BY wrote:
>> Hi I have noticed a few starts of the latest stable nvda where at machine
>> start it leaves a pane called nvda on the screen, which cannot be closed.
>> It
>> can be minimised though and then nvda seems to still work OK including
>> strangely  bringing up the nvda menu from the tray icon.
>>   In the old days of course this kind of strange extra window would
>> prohibit
>> the starting of the menus, showing what was going on and it then needed a
>> reboot, with no closing tones and a delay to get it to work again. this
>> does
>> not seem to be the case here, however. Thus far I've not investigated it
>> further by trying to see what nvda itself thinks this strange window is
>> that
>> one cannot close.
>>   The machine is running Windows 7 home premium, and in other respects is
>> just normal with an I5 processor at 3.2gig and four  gigs of memory.
>>
>>
>> Next time it occurs I'll try and wsee what happens. I was more interested
>> in
>> getting it to install windows updates as the user had confused the poor
>> thing.
>>   Brian
>>
>> [hidden email]
>> Sent via blueyonder.
>> Please address personal email to:-
>> [hidden email], putting 'Brian Gaff'
>> in the display name field.
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Developer Access Program for Intel Xeon Phi Processors
>> Access to Intel Xeon Phi processor-based developer platforms.
>> With one year of Intel Parallel Studio XE.
>> Training and support from Colfax.
>> Order your platform today.http://sdm.link/intel
>> _______________________________________________
>> Nvda-devel mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/nvda-devel
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Developer Access Program for Intel Xeon Phi Processors
> Access to Intel Xeon Phi processor-based developer platforms.
> With one year of Intel Parallel Studio XE.
> Training and support from Colfax.
> Order your platform today.http://sdm.link/intel
> _______________________________________________
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> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/nvda-devel 


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Re: The empty nvda pane syndrome

Sarah Alawami
So far I'm not having the issue.  I can keep an eye to see if this occurs on my virtual machine.

Take care all

> On Dec 25, 2016, at 4:56 PM, Brian's Mail list account BY <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Not had time to look as yet but my feeling on windows 7 is that its only
> started since the last windows update. Whether its made the nvda load time
> longer or what, I have no idea. I'm sure those watching windows updates will
> have noticed, particularly in single core processor machines that update
> kept grabbing more and  more processor time even after you had them all
> installed via svchost.exe
> I noticed that by leaving these machines on for a couple of hours another
> update has finally installed and  stopped that particular problem again.
>
>
> Probably not related, but I did notice it, but as I say this effect of the
> extra pane is intermittent and hence very hard to pin down.
> Brian
>
> [hidden email]
> Sent via blueyonder.
> Please address personal email to:-
> [hidden email], putting 'Brian Gaff'
> in the display name field.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <[hidden email]>
> To: "NVDA screen reader development" <[hidden email]>
> Sent: Sunday, December 25, 2016 5:41 PM
> Subject: Re: [Nvda-devel] The empty nvda pane syndrome
>
>
>> hi
>>
>> This happens hear on windows 10 insider preview build 14986, although
>> not that often. I've tried the usual nvda+f1 shortcut to examine it, but
>> I can't make sense of the output other than it doesn't seem to be
>> accessible.
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Kendell CLark
>>
>>
>>
>> On 12/24/2016 3:17 AM, Brian's Mail list account BY wrote:
>>> Hi I have noticed a few starts of the latest stable nvda where at machine
>>> start it leaves a pane called nvda on the screen, which cannot be closed.
>>> It
>>> can be minimised though and then nvda seems to still work OK including
>>> strangely  bringing up the nvda menu from the tray icon.
>>>  In the old days of course this kind of strange extra window would
>>> prohibit
>>> the starting of the menus, showing what was going on and it then needed a
>>> reboot, with no closing tones and a delay to get it to work again. this
>>> does
>>> not seem to be the case here, however. Thus far I've not investigated it
>>> further by trying to see what nvda itself thinks this strange window is
>>> that
>>> one cannot close.
>>>  The machine is running Windows 7 home premium, and in other respects is
>>> just normal with an I5 processor at 3.2gig and four  gigs of memory.
>>>
>>>
>>> Next time it occurs I'll try and wsee what happens. I was more interested
>>> in
>>> getting it to install windows updates as the user had confused the poor
>>> thing.
>>>  Brian
>>>
>>> [hidden email]
>>> Sent via blueyonder.
>>> Please address personal email to:-
>>> [hidden email], putting 'Brian Gaff'
>>> in the display name field.
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Developer Access Program for Intel Xeon Phi Processors
>>> Access to Intel Xeon Phi processor-based developer platforms.
>>> With one year of Intel Parallel Studio XE.
>>> Training and support from Colfax.
>>> Order your platform today.http://sdm.link/intel
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Nvda-devel mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/nvda-devel
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Developer Access Program for Intel Xeon Phi Processors
>> Access to Intel Xeon Phi processor-based developer platforms.
>> With one year of Intel Parallel Studio XE.
>> Training and support from Colfax.
>> Order your platform today.http://sdm.link/intel
>> _______________________________________________
>> Nvda-devel mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/nvda-devel 
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> Access to Intel Xeon Phi processor-based developer platforms.
> With one year of Intel Parallel Studio XE.
> Training and support from Colfax.
> Order your platform today.http://sdm.link/intel
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> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/nvda-devel


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Re: The empty nvda pane syndrome

Brian's Mail list account BY
It seems to be directly  related to slow nvda loading. For some reason the
rising tones leave a gap of some seconds before the loading please wait and
the actual  speaking of anything.
 My guess is that windows is loading stuff and running close to  full
processor load for that time and something weird then happens in nvda.

Its not a show stopper as one can simply do right alt no and after some
seconds nvda normally starts correctly. Quite why this old issue has come
back in the era of multi- processors is a mystery. I think I need to look at
what runs at the start of a session and see if recent updates have altered
something.
 Brian

[hidden email]
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
[hidden email], putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sarah Alawami" <[hidden email]>
To: "NVDA screen reader development" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Monday, December 26, 2016 5:46 PM
Subject: Re: [Nvda-devel] The empty nvda pane syndrome


> So far I'm not having the issue.  I can keep an eye to see if this occurs
> on my virtual machine.
>
> Take care all
>> On Dec 25, 2016, at 4:56 PM, Brian's Mail list account BY
>> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Not had time to look as yet but my feeling on windows 7 is that its only
>> started since the last windows update. Whether its made the nvda load
>> time
>> longer or what, I have no idea. I'm sure those watching windows updates
>> will
>> have noticed, particularly in single core processor machines that update
>> kept grabbing more and  more processor time even after you had them all
>> installed via svchost.exe
>> I noticed that by leaving these machines on for a couple of hours another
>> update has finally installed and  stopped that particular problem again.
>>
>>
>> Probably not related, but I did notice it, but as I say this effect of
>> the
>> extra pane is intermittent and hence very hard to pin down.
>> Brian
>>
>> [hidden email]
>> Sent via blueyonder.
>> Please address personal email to:-
>> [hidden email], putting 'Brian Gaff'
>> in the display name field.
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: <[hidden email]>
>> To: "NVDA screen reader development" <[hidden email]>
>> Sent: Sunday, December 25, 2016 5:41 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Nvda-devel] The empty nvda pane syndrome
>>
>>
>>> hi
>>>
>>> This happens hear on windows 10 insider preview build 14986, although
>>> not that often. I've tried the usual nvda+f1 shortcut to examine it, but
>>> I can't make sense of the output other than it doesn't seem to be
>>> accessible.
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>> Kendell CLark
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 12/24/2016 3:17 AM, Brian's Mail list account BY wrote:
>>>> Hi I have noticed a few starts of the latest stable nvda where at
>>>> machine
>>>> start it leaves a pane called nvda on the screen, which cannot be
>>>> closed.
>>>> It
>>>> can be minimised though and then nvda seems to still work OK including
>>>> strangely  bringing up the nvda menu from the tray icon.
>>>>  In the old days of course this kind of strange extra window would
>>>> prohibit
>>>> the starting of the menus, showing what was going on and it then needed
>>>> a
>>>> reboot, with no closing tones and a delay to get it to work again. this
>>>> does
>>>> not seem to be the case here, however. Thus far I've not investigated
>>>> it
>>>> further by trying to see what nvda itself thinks this strange window is
>>>> that
>>>> one cannot close.
>>>>  The machine is running Windows 7 home premium, and in other respects
>>>> is
>>>> just normal with an I5 processor at 3.2gig and four  gigs of memory.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Next time it occurs I'll try and wsee what happens. I was more
>>>> interested
>>>> in
>>>> getting it to install windows updates as the user had confused the poor
>>>> thing.
>>>>  Brian
>>>>
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>> Sent via blueyonder.
>>>> Please address personal email to:-
>>>> [hidden email], putting 'Brian Gaff'
>>>> in the display name field.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> Developer Access Program for Intel Xeon Phi Processors
>>>> Access to Intel Xeon Phi processor-based developer platforms.
>>>> With one year of Intel Parallel Studio XE.
>>>> Training and support from Colfax.
>>>> Order your platform today.http://sdm.link/intel
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Nvda-devel mailing list
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/nvda-devel
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Developer Access Program for Intel Xeon Phi Processors
>>> Access to Intel Xeon Phi processor-based developer platforms.
>>> With one year of Intel Parallel Studio XE.
>>> Training and support from Colfax.
>>> Order your platform today.http://sdm.link/intel
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Nvda-devel mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/nvda-devel
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Developer Access Program for Intel Xeon Phi Processors
>> Access to Intel Xeon Phi processor-based developer platforms.
>> With one year of Intel Parallel Studio XE.
>> Training and support from Colfax.
>> Order your platform today.http://sdm.link/intel
>> _______________________________________________
>> Nvda-devel mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/nvda-devel
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> Access to Intel Xeon Phi processor-based developer platforms.
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Re: The empty nvda pane syndrome

Sarah Alawami
I' noticing this as well wiht theelatest snap. I also would like to knwo how to fix if at all possible. Any logs I can provide here?

Take care.

> On Dec 27, 2016, at 1:36 AM, Brian's Mail list account BY <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> It seems to be directly  related to slow nvda loading. For some reason the
> rising tones leave a gap of some seconds before the loading please wait and
> the actual  speaking of anything.
> My guess is that windows is loading stuff and running close to  full
> processor load for that time and something weird then happens in nvda.
>
> Its not a show stopper as one can simply do right alt no and after some
> seconds nvda normally starts correctly. Quite why this old issue has come
> back in the era of multi- processors is a mystery. I think I need to look at
> what runs at the start of a session and see if recent updates have altered
> something.
> Brian
>
> [hidden email]
> Sent via blueyonder.
> Please address personal email to:-
> [hidden email], putting 'Brian Gaff'
> in the display name field.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Sarah Alawami" <[hidden email]>
> To: "NVDA screen reader development" <[hidden email]>
> Sent: Monday, December 26, 2016 5:46 PM
> Subject: Re: [Nvda-devel] The empty nvda pane syndrome
>
>
>> So far I'm not having the issue.  I can keep an eye to see if this occurs
>> on my virtual machine.
>>
>> Take care all
>>> On Dec 25, 2016, at 4:56 PM, Brian's Mail list account BY
>>> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> Not had time to look as yet but my feeling on windows 7 is that its only
>>> started since the last windows update. Whether its made the nvda load
>>> time
>>> longer or what, I have no idea. I'm sure those watching windows updates
>>> will
>>> have noticed, particularly in single core processor machines that update
>>> kept grabbing more and  more processor time even after you had them all
>>> installed via svchost.exe
>>> I noticed that by leaving these machines on for a couple of hours another
>>> update has finally installed and  stopped that particular problem again.
>>>
>>>
>>> Probably not related, but I did notice it, but as I say this effect of
>>> the
>>> extra pane is intermittent and hence very hard to pin down.
>>> Brian
>>>
>>> [hidden email]
>>> Sent via blueyonder.
>>> Please address personal email to:-
>>> [hidden email], putting 'Brian Gaff'
>>> in the display name field.
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: <[hidden email]>
>>> To: "NVDA screen reader development" <[hidden email]>
>>> Sent: Sunday, December 25, 2016 5:41 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [Nvda-devel] The empty nvda pane syndrome
>>>
>>>
>>>> hi
>>>>
>>>> This happens hear on windows 10 insider preview build 14986, although
>>>> not that often. I've tried the usual nvda+f1 shortcut to examine it, but
>>>> I can't make sense of the output other than it doesn't seem to be
>>>> accessible.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks
>>>>
>>>> Kendell CLark
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 12/24/2016 3:17 AM, Brian's Mail list account BY wrote:
>>>>> Hi I have noticed a few starts of the latest stable nvda where at
>>>>> machine
>>>>> start it leaves a pane called nvda on the screen, which cannot be
>>>>> closed.
>>>>> It
>>>>> can be minimised though and then nvda seems to still work OK including
>>>>> strangely  bringing up the nvda menu from the tray icon.
>>>>> In the old days of course this kind of strange extra window would
>>>>> prohibit
>>>>> the starting of the menus, showing what was going on and it then needed
>>>>> a
>>>>> reboot, with no closing tones and a delay to get it to work again. this
>>>>> does
>>>>> not seem to be the case here, however. Thus far I've not investigated
>>>>> it
>>>>> further by trying to see what nvda itself thinks this strange window is
>>>>> that
>>>>> one cannot close.
>>>>> The machine is running Windows 7 home premium, and in other respects
>>>>> is
>>>>> just normal with an I5 processor at 3.2gig and four  gigs of memory.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Next time it occurs I'll try and wsee what happens. I was more
>>>>> interested
>>>>> in
>>>>> getting it to install windows updates as the user had confused the poor
>>>>> thing.
>>>>> Brian
>>>>>
>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>> Sent via blueyonder.
>>>>> Please address personal email to:-
>>>>> [hidden email], putting 'Brian Gaff'
>>>>> in the display name field.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> Developer Access Program for Intel Xeon Phi Processors
>>>>> Access to Intel Xeon Phi processor-based developer platforms.
>>>>> With one year of Intel Parallel Studio XE.
>>>>> Training and support from Colfax.
>>>>> Order your platform today.http://sdm.link/intel
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Nvda-devel mailing list
>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/nvda-devel
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> Developer Access Program for Intel Xeon Phi Processors
>>>> Access to Intel Xeon Phi processor-based developer platforms.
>>>> With one year of Intel Parallel Studio XE.
>>>> Training and support from Colfax.
>>>> Order your platform today.http://sdm.link/intel
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Nvda-devel mailing list
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/nvda-devel
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Developer Access Program for Intel Xeon Phi Processors
>>> Access to Intel Xeon Phi processor-based developer platforms.
>>> With one year of Intel Parallel Studio XE.
>>> Training and support from Colfax.
>>> Order your platform today.http://sdm.link/intel
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Nvda-devel mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/nvda-devel
>>
>>
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Re: The empty nvda pane syndrome

Sarah Alawami
In reply to this post by Brian's Mail list account BY
It hapeend here today. I restarted and all was ok. So what did I brake? Or not brake? Lol!

> On Dec 24, 2016, at 1:17 AM, Brian's Mail list account BY <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Hi I have noticed a few starts of the latest stable nvda where at machine
> start it leaves a pane called nvda on the screen, which cannot be closed. It
> can be minimised though and then nvda seems to still work OK including
> strangely  bringing up the nvda menu from the tray icon.
> In the old days of course this kind of strange extra window would prohibit
> the starting of the menus, showing what was going on and it then needed a
> reboot, with no closing tones and a delay to get it to work again. this does
> not seem to be the case here, however. Thus far I've not investigated it
> further by trying to see what nvda itself thinks this strange window is that
> one cannot close.
> The machine is running Windows 7 home premium, and in other respects is
> just normal with an I5 processor at 3.2gig and four  gigs of memory.
>
>
> Next time it occurs I'll try and wsee what happens. I was more interested in
> getting it to install windows updates as the user had confused the poor
> thing.
> Brian
>
> [hidden email]
> Sent via blueyonder.
> Please address personal email to:-
> [hidden email], putting 'Brian Gaff'
> in the display name field.
>
>
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> Training and support from Colfax.
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Re: The empty nvda pane syndrome

Brian's Mail list account BY
In the old days this happened due to a second instance of nvda ran at start
up.
 I had thought this had been stopped but on one of my very slow amd chipped
machine I have found the menus don't work, presumably due to the invisible
window stopping them from opening. However there is no error, I just know
that if I reboot nvda you do not hear a closing down noise, just a gap and
it reboots.

On machines with multi cores and  other flavours of windows to xp, the
effect is this weird pane but nvda does still work properly it just seems
this rogue window keeps in the alt tab loop or worse, comes up instead of
the desktop all the time. In these cases a reboot does produce the falling
tones and it seems to then open correctly.
 As an aside, on one dual core machine, always when I close nvda it plays
the closing  tones twice for no apparent reason that I can see.


I don't think you break anything, these oddities have been going on from
time to time and thus far I've not seen any damage. If you want to induce
the problem try to get something to come in at boot time that uses a lot of
resources, like when it configures windows updates or starts things like
google drive or dropbox etc.

I think its an issue with processor loading which confuses python in some
weird way.
 Could even be this wow64 stuff that makes 32bit stuff work on 64 bit
machines, who knows?
 Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Sarah Alawami" <[hidden email]>
To: "NVDA screen reader development" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2016 4:08 AM
Subject: Re: [Nvda-devel] The empty nvda pane syndrome


> It hapeend here today. I restarted and all was ok. So what did I brake? Or
> not brake? Lol!
>> On Dec 24, 2016, at 1:17 AM, Brian's Mail list account BY
>> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Hi I have noticed a few starts of the latest stable nvda where at machine
>> start it leaves a pane called nvda on the screen, which cannot be closed.
>> It
>> can be minimised though and then nvda seems to still work OK including
>> strangely  bringing up the nvda menu from the tray icon.
>> In the old days of course this kind of strange extra window would
>> prohibit
>> the starting of the menus, showing what was going on and it then needed a
>> reboot, with no closing tones and a delay to get it to work again. this
>> does
>> not seem to be the case here, however. Thus far I've not investigated it
>> further by trying to see what nvda itself thinks this strange window is
>> that
>> one cannot close.
>> The machine is running Windows 7 home premium, and in other respects is
>> just normal with an I5 processor at 3.2gig and four  gigs of memory.
>>
>>
>> Next time it occurs I'll try and wsee what happens. I was more interested
>> in
>> getting it to install windows updates as the user had confused the poor
>> thing.
>> Brian
>>
>> [hidden email]
>> Sent via blueyonder.
>> Please address personal email to:-
>> [hidden email], putting 'Brian Gaff'
>> in the display name field.
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>> Access to Intel Xeon Phi processor-based developer platforms.
>> With one year of Intel Parallel Studio XE.
>> Training and support from Colfax.
>> Order your platform today.http://sdm.link/intel
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>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/nvda-devel
>
>
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Re: The empty nvda pane syndrome

Brian's Mail list account BY
In reply to this post by Sarah Alawami
Interestingly a defragment of the hard drive on the windows 10 and 7
machines that were doing it seems to have stopped it.

Could be that windows is going through its loading faster now. I seldom see
it on the machine with an ssd unless its doing something like trying to
install a new dropbox version as the system starts.

 Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Sarah Alawami" <[hidden email]>
To: "NVDA screen reader development" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2016 4:08 AM
Subject: Re: [Nvda-devel] The empty nvda pane syndrome


> It hapeend here today. I restarted and all was ok. So what did I brake? Or
> not brake? Lol!
>> On Dec 24, 2016, at 1:17 AM, Brian's Mail list account BY
>> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Hi I have noticed a few starts of the latest stable nvda where at machine
>> start it leaves a pane called nvda on the screen, which cannot be closed.
>> It
>> can be minimised though and then nvda seems to still work OK including
>> strangely  bringing up the nvda menu from the tray icon.
>> In the old days of course this kind of strange extra window would
>> prohibit
>> the starting of the menus, showing what was going on and it then needed a
>> reboot, with no closing tones and a delay to get it to work again. this
>> does
>> not seem to be the case here, however. Thus far I've not investigated it
>> further by trying to see what nvda itself thinks this strange window is
>> that
>> one cannot close.
>> The machine is running Windows 7 home premium, and in other respects is
>> just normal with an I5 processor at 3.2gig and four  gigs of memory.
>>
>>
>> Next time it occurs I'll try and wsee what happens. I was more interested
>> in
>> getting it to install windows updates as the user had confused the poor
>> thing.
>> Brian
>>
>> [hidden email]
>> Sent via blueyonder.
>> Please address personal email to:-
>> [hidden email], putting 'Brian Gaff'
>> in the display name field.
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Developer Access Program for Intel Xeon Phi Processors
>> Access to Intel Xeon Phi processor-based developer platforms.
>> With one year of Intel Parallel Studio XE.
>> Training and support from Colfax.
>> Order your platform today.http://sdm.link/intel
>> _______________________________________________
>> Nvda-devel mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/nvda-devel
>
>
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Wxpython software pump variable tick count according to object class name

Mgr. Janusz Chmiel-3
Dear developers,
My idea would seems very strange for core developers of NVDA. So I will
try to do my best to describe it Te best I can.
UIAutomation bugs. Are really bugs of Microsoft CORP? Or are those bugs
rather problems, which are being caused by The Wxpython software pump,
which is The heart of NVDA core code.
Try to imagine Skype chat window. When presing ESC, Skype crashes
randomly. Well, we can assign it that it is The bug of uiautomation
libraryes. But what if it is The problem, that NVDA intercepts system
events too fast in some circumstances?
Listviews and Richedit control. When switching between Richedit class
and syslist views it can randomly crash app to. For example, while using
Miranda NG.
What if NVDA wypython pump would tick not every 70 mili seconds but in
some specific circumstances, tick count would be higher, for example
every 98 or 90 milliseconds. But somebody would had to modify wxpython
to allow that.
Because I Am afraid that screen reader can not react to fast like human
seeing perception. And that in some cases, UI automation is not released
correctly and new object class is not ready to fully interact with NVDA.
Surely, operating system components should solve those issues at The
first places. But what if Microsoft corporation will not repair UI
automation, Richedit library?
Yes, latest Windows 10 insider preview contain some Narrator and
accessibility related changes. But in general, what do you think about
my idea related to Wxpython software pump ticking count time changing
for Richedit class names?
Or for The circumstances when Skype chat edit window had focus and Esc
key have been pressed?


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Re: The empty nvda pane syndrome

Sarah Alawami
In reply to this post by Brian's Mail list account BY
I'm on an ssd  actually. The problem only happened once yesterday, and nvda took about 45 seconds to start after I heard the a major cord. Tha'ts when I saw the untitled empty thing. I just restarted nvda and it went by by. I have not seen it since..

> On Dec 31, 2016, at 2:39 AM, Brian's Mail list account BY <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Interestingly a defragment of the hard drive on the windows 10 and 7
> machines that were doing it seems to have stopped it.
>
> Could be that windows is going through its loading faster now. I seldom see
> it on the machine with an ssd unless its doing something like trying to
> install a new dropbox version as the system starts.
>
> Brian
>
> [hidden email]
> Sent via blueyonder.
> Please address personal email to:-
> [hidden email], putting 'Brian Gaff'
> in the display name field.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Sarah Alawami" <[hidden email]>
> To: "NVDA screen reader development" <[hidden email]>
> Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2016 4:08 AM
> Subject: Re: [Nvda-devel] The empty nvda pane syndrome
>
>
>> It hapeend here today. I restarted and all was ok. So what did I brake? Or
>> not brake? Lol!
>>> On Dec 24, 2016, at 1:17 AM, Brian's Mail list account BY
>>> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi I have noticed a few starts of the latest stable nvda where at machine
>>> start it leaves a pane called nvda on the screen, which cannot be closed.
>>> It
>>> can be minimised though and then nvda seems to still work OK including
>>> strangely  bringing up the nvda menu from the tray icon.
>>> In the old days of course this kind of strange extra window would
>>> prohibit
>>> the starting of the menus, showing what was going on and it then needed a
>>> reboot, with no closing tones and a delay to get it to work again. this
>>> does
>>> not seem to be the case here, however. Thus far I've not investigated it
>>> further by trying to see what nvda itself thinks this strange window is
>>> that
>>> one cannot close.
>>> The machine is running Windows 7 home premium, and in other respects is
>>> just normal with an I5 processor at 3.2gig and four  gigs of memory.
>>>
>>>
>>> Next time it occurs I'll try and wsee what happens. I was more interested
>>> in
>>> getting it to install windows updates as the user had confused the poor
>>> thing.
>>> Brian
>>>
>>> [hidden email]
>>> Sent via blueyonder.
>>> Please address personal email to:-
>>> [hidden email], putting 'Brian Gaff'
>>> in the display name field.
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Developer Access Program for Intel Xeon Phi Processors
>>> Access to Intel Xeon Phi processor-based developer platforms.
>>> With one year of Intel Parallel Studio XE.
>>> Training and support from Colfax.
>>> Order your platform today.http://sdm.link/intel
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Nvda-devel mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/nvda-devel
>>
>>
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>
>
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Re: The empty nvda pane syndrome

Brian's Mail list account BY
It is the time taken that is the smoking gun for this certainly. It could be
anything running on the machine which is taking the processor time over.
What I don't get is why time to load has any effect on whether it launches
in this strange mode and indeed why on xp it stops menus, but in 7 and up it
does not.
 Brian

[hidden email]
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
[hidden email], putting 'Brian Gaff'
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Sarah Alawami" <[hidden email]>
To: "NVDA screen reader development" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2016 8:14 PM
Subject: Re: [Nvda-devel] The empty nvda pane syndrome


> I'm on an ssd  actually. The problem only happened once yesterday, and
> nvda took about 45 seconds to start after I heard the a major cord. Tha'ts
> when I saw the untitled empty thing. I just restarted nvda and it went by
> by. I have not seen it since..
>> On Dec 31, 2016, at 2:39 AM, Brian's Mail list account BY
>> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Interestingly a defragment of the hard drive on the windows 10 and 7
>> machines that were doing it seems to have stopped it.
>>
>> Could be that windows is going through its loading faster now. I seldom
>> see
>> it on the machine with an ssd unless its doing something like trying to
>> install a new dropbox version as the system starts.
>>
>> Brian
>>
>> [hidden email]
>> Sent via blueyonder.
>> Please address personal email to:-
>> [hidden email], putting 'Brian Gaff'
>> in the display name field.
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Sarah Alawami" <[hidden email]>
>> To: "NVDA screen reader development" <[hidden email]>
>> Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2016 4:08 AM
>> Subject: Re: [Nvda-devel] The empty nvda pane syndrome
>>
>>
>>> It hapeend here today. I restarted and all was ok. So what did I brake?
>>> Or
>>> not brake? Lol!
>>>> On Dec 24, 2016, at 1:17 AM, Brian's Mail list account BY
>>>> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi I have noticed a few starts of the latest stable nvda where at
>>>> machine
>>>> start it leaves a pane called nvda on the screen, which cannot be
>>>> closed.
>>>> It
>>>> can be minimised though and then nvda seems to still work OK including
>>>> strangely  bringing up the nvda menu from the tray icon.
>>>> In the old days of course this kind of strange extra window would
>>>> prohibit
>>>> the starting of the menus, showing what was going on and it then needed
>>>> a
>>>> reboot, with no closing tones and a delay to get it to work again. this
>>>> does
>>>> not seem to be the case here, however. Thus far I've not investigated
>>>> it
>>>> further by trying to see what nvda itself thinks this strange window is
>>>> that
>>>> one cannot close.
>>>> The machine is running Windows 7 home premium, and in other respects is
>>>> just normal with an I5 processor at 3.2gig and four  gigs of memory.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Next time it occurs I'll try and wsee what happens. I was more
>>>> interested
>>>> in
>>>> getting it to install windows updates as the user had confused the poor
>>>> thing.
>>>> Brian
>>>>
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>> Sent via blueyonder.
>>>> Please address personal email to:-
>>>> [hidden email], putting 'Brian Gaff'
>>>> in the display name field.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> Developer Access Program for Intel Xeon Phi Processors
>>>> Access to Intel Xeon Phi processor-based developer platforms.
>>>> With one year of Intel Parallel Studio XE.
>>>> Training and support from Colfax.
>>>> Order your platform today.http://sdm.link/intel
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Nvda-devel mailing list
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/nvda-devel
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>>
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Re: The empty nvda pane syndrome

James Teh
Does this happen with installed copies on Windows 7 and later or only portable? Can you please provide me the NVDA+f1 output for this window?

On Sun, Jan 1, 2017 at 7:30 PM, Brian's Mail list account BY <[hidden email]> wrote:
It is the time taken that is the smoking gun for this certainly. It could be
anything running on the machine which is taking the processor time over.
What I don't get is why time to load has any effect on whether it launches
in this strange mode and indeed why on xp it stops menus, but in 7 and up it
does not.
 Brian

[hidden email]
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
[hidden email], putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sarah Alawami" <[hidden email]>
To: "NVDA screen reader development" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2016 8:14 PM
Subject: Re: [Nvda-devel] The empty nvda pane syndrome


> I'm on an ssd  actually. The problem only happened once yesterday, and
> nvda took about 45 seconds to start after I heard the a major cord. Tha'ts
> when I saw the untitled empty thing. I just restarted nvda and it went by
> by. I have not seen it since..
>> On Dec 31, 2016, at 2:39 AM, Brian's Mail list account BY
>> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Interestingly a defragment of the hard drive on the windows 10 and 7
>> machines that were doing it seems to have stopped it.
>>
>> Could be that windows is going through its loading faster now. I seldom
>> see
>> it on the machine with an ssd unless its doing something like trying to
>> install a new dropbox version as the system starts.
>>
>> Brian
>>
>> [hidden email]
>> Sent via blueyonder.
>> Please address personal email to:-
>> [hidden email], putting 'Brian Gaff'
>> in the display name field.
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Sarah Alawami" <[hidden email]>
>> To: "NVDA screen reader development" <[hidden email]>
>> Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2016 4:08 AM
>> Subject: Re: [Nvda-devel] The empty nvda pane syndrome
>>
>>
>>> It hapeend here today. I restarted and all was ok. So what did I brake?
>>> Or
>>> not brake? Lol!
>>>> On Dec 24, 2016, at 1:17 AM, Brian's Mail list account BY
>>>> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi I have noticed a few starts of the latest stable nvda where at
>>>> machine
>>>> start it leaves a pane called nvda on the screen, which cannot be
>>>> closed.
>>>> It
>>>> can be minimised though and then nvda seems to still work OK including
>>>> strangely  bringing up the nvda menu from the tray icon.
>>>> In the old days of course this kind of strange extra window would
>>>> prohibit
>>>> the starting of the menus, showing what was going on and it then needed
>>>> a
>>>> reboot, with no closing tones and a delay to get it to work again. this
>>>> does
>>>> not seem to be the case here, however. Thus far I've not investigated
>>>> it
>>>> further by trying to see what nvda itself thinks this strange window is
>>>> that
>>>> one cannot close.
>>>> The machine is running Windows 7 home premium, and in other respects is
>>>> just normal with an I5 processor at 3.2gig and four  gigs of memory.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Next time it occurs I'll try and wsee what happens. I was more
>>>> interested
>>>> in
>>>> getting it to install windows updates as the user had confused the poor
>>>> thing.
>>>> Brian
>>>>
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>> Sent via blueyonder.
>>>> Please address personal email to:-
>>>> [hidden email], putting 'Brian Gaff'
>>>> in the display name field.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> Developer Access Program for Intel Xeon Phi Processors
>>>> Access to Intel Xeon Phi processor-based developer platforms.
>>>> With one year of Intel Parallel Studio XE.
>>>> Training and support from Colfax.
>>>> Order your platform today.http://sdm.link/intel
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Nvda-devel mailing list
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/nvda-devel
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>>
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Re: Wxpython software pump variable tick count according to object class name

James Teh
In reply to this post by Mgr. Janusz Chmiel-3
Thanks for your thoughts. Unfortunately, any such solution, even if it worked, is only going to be a stab in the dark, probably won't fix it in some cases (e.g. slow system or system under load), might introduce a whole load of new issues (including performance problems) and basically just hides the underlying issue. Also, our core pump doesn't actually run on a constant timer like it used to. In most cases, it now only runs when there is something for it to actually do, though we delay it by 10 ms or so to give us some time to buffer event floods.

The good news is that we do have a stronger relationship with Microsoft now, so if we can get enough info about the RichEdit crash, we can hopefully get them to fix it.

On Sat, Dec 31, 2016 at 9:52 PM, Mgr. Janusz Chmiel <[hidden email]> wrote:
Dear developers,
My idea would seems very strange for core developers of NVDA. So I will
try to do my best to describe it Te best I can.
UIAutomation bugs. Are really bugs of Microsoft CORP? Or are those bugs
rather problems, which are being caused by The Wxpython software pump,
which is The heart of NVDA core code.
Try to imagine Skype chat window. When presing ESC, Skype crashes
randomly. Well, we can assign it that it is The bug of uiautomation
libraryes. But what if it is The problem, that NVDA intercepts system
events too fast in some circumstances?
Listviews and Richedit control. When switching between Richedit class
and syslist views it can randomly crash app to. For example, while using
Miranda NG.
What if NVDA wypython pump would tick not every 70 mili seconds but in
some specific circumstances, tick count would be higher, for example
every 98 or 90 milliseconds. But somebody would had to modify wxpython
to allow that.
Because I Am afraid that screen reader can not react to fast like human
seeing perception. And that in some cases, UI automation is not released
correctly and new object class is not ready to fully interact with NVDA.
Surely, operating system components should solve those issues at The
first places. But what if Microsoft corporation will not repair UI
automation, Richedit library?
Yes, latest Windows 10 insider preview contain some Narrator and
accessibility related changes. But in general, what do you think about
my idea related to Wxpython software pump ticking count time changing
for Richedit class names?
Or for The circumstances when Skype chat edit window had focus and Esc
key have been pressed?


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Re: The empty nvda pane syndrome

Brian's Mail list account BY
In reply to this post by James Teh
I'll have a go. The last time it happened on 7 was after a restart from a
windows update when it had said please wait configuring your updates or
similar.
 This is what makes me feel its related to time to actually get started.
 There was a very long winded .net framework update last time as I recall.

Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "James Teh" <[hidden email]>
To: "NVDA screen reader development" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2017 2:52 AM
Subject: Re: [Nvda-devel] The empty nvda pane syndrome


> Does this happen with installed copies on Windows 7 and later or only
> portable? Can you please provide me the NVDA+f1 output for this window?
>
> On Sun, Jan 1, 2017 at 7:30 PM, Brian's Mail list account BY <
> [hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> It is the time taken that is the smoking gun for this certainly. It could
>> be
>> anything running on the machine which is taking the processor time over.
>> What I don't get is why time to load has any effect on whether it
>> launches
>> in this strange mode and indeed why on xp it stops menus, but in 7 and up
>> it
>> does not.
>>  Brian
>>
>> [hidden email]
>> Sent via blueyonder.
>> Please address personal email to:-
>> [hidden email], putting 'Brian Gaff'
>> in the display name field.
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Sarah Alawami" <[hidden email]>
>> To: "NVDA screen reader development" <[hidden email]>
>> Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2016 8:14 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Nvda-devel] The empty nvda pane syndrome
>>
>>
>> > I'm on an ssd  actually. The problem only happened once yesterday, and
>> > nvda took about 45 seconds to start after I heard the a major cord.
>> Tha'ts
>> > when I saw the untitled empty thing. I just restarted nvda and it went
>> > by
>> > by. I have not seen it since..
>> >> On Dec 31, 2016, at 2:39 AM, Brian's Mail list account BY
>> >> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Interestingly a defragment of the hard drive on the windows 10 and 7
>> >> machines that were doing it seems to have stopped it.
>> >>
>> >> Could be that windows is going through its loading faster now. I
>> >> seldom
>> >> see
>> >> it on the machine with an ssd unless its doing something like trying
>> >> to
>> >> install a new dropbox version as the system starts.
>> >>
>> >> Brian
>> >>
>> >> [hidden email]
>> >> Sent via blueyonder.
>> >> Please address personal email to:-
>> >> [hidden email], putting 'Brian Gaff'
>> >> in the display name field.
>> >> ----- Original Message -----
>> >> From: "Sarah Alawami" <[hidden email]>
>> >> To: "NVDA screen reader development"
>> >> <[hidden email]>
>> >> Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2016 4:08 AM
>> >> Subject: Re: [Nvda-devel] The empty nvda pane syndrome
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>> It hapeend here today. I restarted and all was ok. So what did I
>> >>> brake?
>> >>> Or
>> >>> not brake? Lol!
>> >>>> On Dec 24, 2016, at 1:17 AM, Brian's Mail list account BY
>> >>>> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Hi I have noticed a few starts of the latest stable nvda where at
>> >>>> machine
>> >>>> start it leaves a pane called nvda on the screen, which cannot be
>> >>>> closed.
>> >>>> It
>> >>>> can be minimised though and then nvda seems to still work OK
>> >>>> including
>> >>>> strangely  bringing up the nvda menu from the tray icon.
>> >>>> In the old days of course this kind of strange extra window would
>> >>>> prohibit
>> >>>> the starting of the menus, showing what was going on and it then
>> needed
>> >>>> a
>> >>>> reboot, with no closing tones and a delay to get it to work again.
>> this
>> >>>> does
>> >>>> not seem to be the case here, however. Thus far I've not
>> >>>> investigated
>> >>>> it
>> >>>> further by trying to see what nvda itself thinks this strange window
>> is
>> >>>> that
>> >>>> one cannot close.
>> >>>> The machine is running Windows 7 home premium, and in other respects
>> is
>> >>>> just normal with an I5 processor at 3.2gig and four  gigs of memory.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Next time it occurs I'll try and wsee what happens. I was more
>> >>>> interested
>> >>>> in
>> >>>> getting it to install windows updates as the user had confused the
>> poor
>> >>>> thing.
>> >>>> Brian
>> >>>>
>> >>>> [hidden email]
>> >>>> Sent via blueyonder.
>> >>>> Please address personal email to:-
>> >>>> [hidden email], putting 'Brian Gaff'
>> >>>> in the display name field.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>> ------------------
>> >>>> Developer Access Program for Intel Xeon Phi Processors
>> >>>> Access to Intel Xeon Phi processor-based developer platforms.
>> >>>> With one year of Intel Parallel Studio XE.
>> >>>> Training and support from Colfax.
>> >>>> Order your platform today.http://sdm.link/intel
>> >>>> _______________________________________________
>> >>>> Nvda-devel mailing list
>> >>>> [hidden email]
>> >>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/nvda-devel
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>> ------------------
>> >>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>> >>> engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
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>> >>> Nvda-devel mailing list
>> >>> [hidden email]
>> >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/nvda-devel
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> ------------------------------------------------------------
>> ------------------
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>> >
>> >
>> > ------------------------------------------------------------
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>>
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Re: The empty nvda pane syndrome

Sarah Alawami
I also believe that's when I had the issue, like 3 days ago whenI ran updates. And that took a while actually. We'll see when this patch Tuesday comes.

> On Jan 3, 2017, at 9:42 AM, Brian's Mail list account BY <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I'll have a go. The last time it happened on 7 was after a restart from a
> windows update when it had said please wait configuring your updates or
> similar.
> This is what makes me feel its related to time to actually get started.
> There was a very long winded .net framework update last time as I recall.
>
> Brian
>
> [hidden email]
> Sent via blueyonder.
> Please address personal email to:-
> [hidden email], putting 'Brian Gaff'
> in the display name field.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "James Teh" <[hidden email]>
> To: "NVDA screen reader development" <[hidden email]>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2017 2:52 AM
> Subject: Re: [Nvda-devel] The empty nvda pane syndrome
>
>
>> Does this happen with installed copies on Windows 7 and later or only
>> portable? Can you please provide me the NVDA+f1 output for this window?
>>
>> On Sun, Jan 1, 2017 at 7:30 PM, Brian's Mail list account BY <
>> [hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>> It is the time taken that is the smoking gun for this certainly. It could
>>> be
>>> anything running on the machine which is taking the processor time over.
>>> What I don't get is why time to load has any effect on whether it
>>> launches
>>> in this strange mode and indeed why on xp it stops menus, but in 7 and up
>>> it
>>> does not.
>>> Brian
>>>
>>> [hidden email]
>>> Sent via blueyonder.
>>> Please address personal email to:-
>>> [hidden email], putting 'Brian Gaff'
>>> in the display name field.
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Sarah Alawami" <[hidden email]>
>>> To: "NVDA screen reader development" <[hidden email]>
>>> Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2016 8:14 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [Nvda-devel] The empty nvda pane syndrome
>>>
>>>
>>>> I'm on an ssd  actually. The problem only happened once yesterday, and
>>>> nvda took about 45 seconds to start after I heard the a major cord.
>>> Tha'ts
>>>> when I saw the untitled empty thing. I just restarted nvda and it went
>>>> by
>>>> by. I have not seen it since..
>>>>> On Dec 31, 2016, at 2:39 AM, Brian's Mail list account BY
>>>>> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Interestingly a defragment of the hard drive on the windows 10 and 7
>>>>> machines that were doing it seems to have stopped it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Could be that windows is going through its loading faster now. I
>>>>> seldom
>>>>> see
>>>>> it on the machine with an ssd unless its doing something like trying
>>>>> to
>>>>> install a new dropbox version as the system starts.
>>>>>
>>>>> Brian
>>>>>
>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>> Sent via blueyonder.
>>>>> Please address personal email to:-
>>>>> [hidden email], putting 'Brian Gaff'
>>>>> in the display name field.
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Sarah Alawami" <[hidden email]>
>>>>> To: "NVDA screen reader development"
>>>>> <[hidden email]>
>>>>> Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2016 4:08 AM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Nvda-devel] The empty nvda pane syndrome
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> It hapeend here today. I restarted and all was ok. So what did I
>>>>>> brake?
>>>>>> Or
>>>>>> not brake? Lol!
>>>>>>> On Dec 24, 2016, at 1:17 AM, Brian's Mail list account BY
>>>>>>> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi I have noticed a few starts of the latest stable nvda where at
>>>>>>> machine
>>>>>>> start it leaves a pane called nvda on the screen, which cannot be
>>>>>>> closed.
>>>>>>> It
>>>>>>> can be minimised though and then nvda seems to still work OK
>>>>>>> including
>>>>>>> strangely  bringing up the nvda menu from the tray icon.
>>>>>>> In the old days of course this kind of strange extra window would
>>>>>>> prohibit
>>>>>>> the starting of the menus, showing what was going on and it then
>>> needed
>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>> reboot, with no closing tones and a delay to get it to work again.
>>> this
>>>>>>> does
>>>>>>> not seem to be the case here, however. Thus far I've not
>>>>>>> investigated
>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>> further by trying to see what nvda itself thinks this strange window
>>> is
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> one cannot close.
>>>>>>> The machine is running Windows 7 home premium, and in other respects
>>> is
>>>>>>> just normal with an I5 processor at 3.2gig and four  gigs of memory.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Next time it occurs I'll try and wsee what happens. I was more
>>>>>>> interested
>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>> getting it to install windows updates as the user had confused the
>>> poor
>>>>>>> thing.
>>>>>>> Brian
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>> Sent via blueyonder.
>>>>>>> Please address personal email to:-
>>>>>>> [hidden email], putting 'Brian Gaff'
>>>>>>> in the display name field.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>> ------------------
>>>>>>> Developer Access Program for Intel Xeon Phi Processors
>>>>>>> Access to Intel Xeon Phi processor-based developer platforms.
>>>>>>> With one year of Intel Parallel Studio XE.
>>>>>>> Training and support from Colfax.
>>>>>>> Order your platform today.http://sdm.link/intel
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Nvda-devel mailing list
>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/nvda-devel
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>> ------------------
>>>>>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>>>>>> engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
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>>>>>> Nvda-devel mailing list
>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/nvda-devel
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>> ------------------
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>>>>> engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
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>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/nvda-devel
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
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>>>
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>>
>
>
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>
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new windows tablet owner with a couple of questions

coffeekingms@hotmail.com
In reply to this post by Brian's Mail list account BY
hi all
About a week ago i purchased a used windows 8.1 tablet from a pawn shop
(no it was not stolen) that I then upgraded to windows 10. I didn't
expect this to work because I remember reading somewhere that microsoft
wasn't allowing rt devices to be upgraded, but either I was wrong or
this device has pc hardware in it, not arm hardware. It's a nextbook
araes 10.1 tablet, I can get the exact model number if it would help,
but  anyway, to skip all that. I'm having a lot of trouble using nvda on
the touch screen. It does sort of work, but it's rather clunky. I'm not
complaining, but there doesn't seem to be a way to change the settings
of either the touch screen or nvda's behavior when using one. Also, I
usually accidentally brush the integrated touchpad of the attachable
keyboard and nvda often loses focus, even with mouse tracking turned
off. The reason I'm posting to the dev list instead of the support list
is because I want to help nvda improve in this area. I'm not sure if any
of the nvda devs have touch hardware, and if not I'll gladly use my own
to do whatever you guys think would help nvda get better. Other than
that, I love windows 10 and I love having a windows 10 tablet. I can now
take windows with me wherever I go, and I can't be happier.
Thanks
Kendell Clark

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Re: new windows tablet owner with a couple of questions

Brian's Mail list account BY
>From what you say, it does seem that maybe the tablet was as it was naff, to
use a technical term.
 Most should be able to work like a puter with a keyboard attached unless
the drivers needed for that tablet are so non standard that it has the
issues you describe. How fast is it and what ram and storage does it have.
 You like windows 10 do you? I'd say fine if they had not used Ribbons and
made single use such a pain from the security point of view.
 Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "kendell clark" <[hidden email]>
To: "NVDA screen reader development" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2017 8:42 AM
Subject: [Nvda-devel] new windows tablet owner with a couple of questions


> hi all
> About a week ago i purchased a used windows 8.1 tablet from a pawn shop
> (no it was not stolen) that I then upgraded to windows 10. I didn't
> expect this to work because I remember reading somewhere that microsoft
> wasn't allowing rt devices to be upgraded, but either I was wrong or
> this device has pc hardware in it, not arm hardware. It's a nextbook
> araes 10.1 tablet, I can get the exact model number if it would help,
> but  anyway, to skip all that. I'm having a lot of trouble using nvda on
> the touch screen. It does sort of work, but it's rather clunky. I'm not
> complaining, but there doesn't seem to be a way to change the settings
> of either the touch screen or nvda's behavior when using one. Also, I
> usually accidentally brush the integrated touchpad of the attachable
> keyboard and nvda often loses focus, even with mouse tracking turned
> off. The reason I'm posting to the dev list instead of the support list
> is because I want to help nvda improve in this area. I'm not sure if any
> of the nvda devs have touch hardware, and if not I'll gladly use my own
> to do whatever you guys think would help nvda get better. Other than
> that, I love windows 10 and I love having a windows 10 tablet. I can now
> take windows with me wherever I go, and I can't be happier.
> Thanks
> Kendell Clark
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
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> [hidden email]
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Re: new windows tablet owner with a couple of questions

derek riemer
In reply to this post by coffeekingms@hotmail.com
Hi:
To start, does it detect multi finger touches? I've heard that some hardware isn't ideal for screen reader use of a touch screen. I'm not certain though on the exact issues. What kinds of things do you see? the best thing to do would be raise bugs or feature requests on github IMHO, and then people can either fix them, or the core devs could help point you at how you could fix it if you are interested in doing the coding (Which you sounded interested in doing).

On Tue, Apr 18, 2017 at 1:42 AM, kendell clark <[hidden email]> wrote:
hi all
About a week ago i purchased a used windows 8.1 tablet from a pawn shop
(no it was not stolen) that I then upgraded to windows 10. I didn't
expect this to work because I remember reading somewhere that microsoft
wasn't allowing rt devices to be upgraded, but either I was wrong or
this device has pc hardware in it, not arm hardware. It's a nextbook
araes 10.1 tablet, I can get the exact model number if it would help,
but  anyway, to skip all that. I'm having a lot of trouble using nvda on
the touch screen. It does sort of work, but it's rather clunky. I'm not
complaining, but there doesn't seem to be a way to change the settings
of either the touch screen or nvda's behavior when using one. Also, I
usually accidentally brush the integrated touchpad of the attachable
keyboard and nvda often loses focus, even with mouse tracking turned
off. The reason I'm posting to the dev list instead of the support list
is because I want to help nvda improve in this area. I'm not sure if any
of the nvda devs have touch hardware, and if not I'll gladly use my own
to do whatever you guys think would help nvda get better. Other than
that, I love windows 10 and I love having a windows 10 tablet. I can now
take windows with me wherever I go, and I can't be happier.
Thanks
Kendell Clark

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--

Derek Riemer: Improving the world one byte at a time!

  • University of Colorado Boulder Department of computer science, 4th year undergraduate student.
  • Accessibility enthusiast.
  • Proud user of the NVDA screen reader.
  • Open source enthusiast.
  • Skier.

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