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NVDA not reading a table

Brandon Keith Biggs
Hello,
Does anyone know what is going on with this table?
I was using the bank register screen of Quickbooks online with NVDA and there is a table there that shows all transactions. The header row reads just fine, (although there seems to be a section above the table that looks to be in the table element, but it is above the header. When I move through the header I can use ctrl+alt+ left and right arrow to move through the headers, but up and down arrow say "edge of table". When I down arrow past the header, I see the transactions, but when I press ctrl+alt left and right, 1 of two things happens:
1. I jump back up to the header row and start moving through the header row.
2. NVDA says nothing.

Does anyone know what is going on with this? I have never seen this behavior before. Each cell has an event listener because when you click on the cell something happens and you can edit that transaction.
I am guessing it has something to do with the html not being correct, but I don't know anything above that and if I report "your table is not working, please make it proper html" they will not do anything.
So I would like to know if anyone knows what is missing or wrong with a table that acts like this?
I am using NVDA 16.4, firefox 50.1.0 on a Windows 10.
Thank you,


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Re: NVDA not reading a table

Brian's Mail list account BY
The other day I had a similar issue on adobes web site looking for a patch
for my operating system.
 I gave up and decided it was Adobe being their usual silly selves, so I
cannot give a url.
 Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" <[hidden email]>
To: "NVDA screen reader development" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Friday, January 06, 2017 11:58 AM
Subject: [Nvda-devel] NVDA not reading a table


> Hello,
> Does anyone know what is going on with this table?
> I was using the bank register screen of Quickbooks online with NVDA and
> there is a table there that shows all transactions. The header row reads
> just fine, (although there seems to be a section above the table that
> looks
> to be in the table element, but it is above the header. When I move
> through
> the header I can use ctrl+alt+ left and right arrow to move through the
> headers, but up and down arrow say "edge of table". When I down arrow past
> the header, I see the transactions, but when I press ctrl+alt left and
> right, 1 of two things happens:
> 1. I jump back up to the header row and start moving through the header
> row.
> 2. NVDA says nothing.
>
> Does anyone know what is going on with this? I have never seen this
> behavior before. Each cell has an event listener because when you click on
> the cell something happens and you can edit that transaction.
> I am guessing it has something to do with the html not being correct, but
> I
> don't know anything above that and if I report "your table is not working,
> please make it proper html" they will not do anything.
> So I would like to know if anyone knows what is missing or wrong with a
> table that acts like this?
> I am using NVDA 16.4, firefox 50.1.0 on a Windows 10.
> Thank you,
>
> Brandon Keith Biggs <http://brandonkeithbiggs.com/>
>


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Re: NVDA not reading a table

Travis Roth
In reply to this post by Brandon Keith Biggs

Hello Brandon,

The QuickBooks Online bank register table is quite a mess.

There is a mixture of ARIA and HTML table code. For example, cells in the table have TH and TD tags. But there is not a <table> tag to hold it together, they’re using a <div> with a  role=grid to the best I can tell for the container. And possibly a <div> with a role=row instead of <tr> tags.

So a screen reader has to be up to processing the combination. I am not sure that is a fair ask for NVDA.

 

If you start editing a row it becomes even worse.

 

Travis

 

 

From: Brandon Keith Biggs [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Friday, January 6, 2017 5:58 AM
To: NVDA screen reader development <[hidden email]>
Subject: [Nvda-devel] NVDA not reading a table

 

Hello,

Does anyone know what is going on with this table?

I was using the bank register screen of Quickbooks online with NVDA and there is a table there that shows all transactions. The header row reads just fine, (although there seems to be a section above the table that looks to be in the table element, but it is above the header. When I move through the header I can use ctrl+alt+ left and right arrow to move through the headers, but up and down arrow say "edge of table". When I down arrow past the header, I see the transactions, but when I press ctrl+alt left and right, 1 of two things happens:

1. I jump back up to the header row and start moving through the header row.

2. NVDA says nothing.

Does anyone know what is going on with this? I have never seen this behavior before. Each cell has an event listener because when you click on the cell something happens and you can edit that transaction.

I am guessing it has something to do with the html not being correct, but I don't know anything above that and if I report "your table is not working, please make it proper html" they will not do anything.

So I would like to know if anyone knows what is missing or wrong with a table that acts like this?

I am using NVDA 16.4, firefox 50.1.0 on a Windows 10.

Thank you,


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Re: NVDA not reading a table

Brandon Keith Biggs
Hello,
Thank you! Where did you find the role information? Does NVDA say this somewhere? Or did you read their javascript? I currently use the ctrl+u shortcut on ff to read html, on a web page, but I am not good at finding specific sections in javascript web apps.

I am working with them to make these tables work correctly. Their problem is that they needed a table with scrolling and the ability to capture click events. My typical advice is to tell people to get rid of aria markup and just use HTML, so I think that is what I will do here.
Thanks,



On Mon, Jan 9, 2017 at 11:48 AM, Travis Roth <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hello Brandon,

The QuickBooks Online bank register table is quite a mess.

There is a mixture of ARIA and HTML table code. For example, cells in the table have TH and TD tags. But there is not a <table> tag to hold it together, they’re using a <div> with a  role=grid to the best I can tell for the container. And possibly a <div> with a role=row instead of <tr> tags.

So a screen reader has to be up to processing the combination. I am not sure that is a fair ask for NVDA.

 

If you start editing a row it becomes even worse.

 

Travis

 

 

From: Brandon Keith Biggs [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Friday, January 6, 2017 5:58 AM
To: NVDA screen reader development <[hidden email]>
Subject: [Nvda-devel] NVDA not reading a table

 

Hello,

Does anyone know what is going on with this table?

I was using the bank register screen of Quickbooks online with NVDA and there is a table there that shows all transactions. The header row reads just fine, (although there seems to be a section above the table that looks to be in the table element, but it is above the header. When I move through the header I can use ctrl+alt+ left and right arrow to move through the headers, but up and down arrow say "edge of table". When I down arrow past the header, I see the transactions, but when I press ctrl+alt left and right, 1 of two things happens:

1. I jump back up to the header row and start moving through the header row.

2. NVDA says nothing.

Does anyone know what is going on with this? I have never seen this behavior before. Each cell has an event listener because when you click on the cell something happens and you can edit that transaction.

I am guessing it has something to do with the html not being correct, but I don't know anything above that and if I report "your table is not working, please make it proper html" they will not do anything.

So I would like to know if anyone knows what is missing or wrong with a table that acts like this?

I am using NVDA 16.4, firefox 50.1.0 on a Windows 10.

Thank you,


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Re: NVDA not reading a table

Travis Roth

Well not sure this should be cluttering the NVDA list so you may email me directly if you like as I also use this program and fixing it would be nice.

Anyways the issue with Ctrl+u is that shows you HTML MARKUP THAT IS PRE_Javascript. Most of this site is made with JS, so you wont’ find much.

You should be able to find it with Firebug but it may be a challenge to narrow down the element.

I use a hot key in JAWS (I Know this is a NVDA list) to look at underlying code of the current virtual element.

If NVDA has such a facility I’d love to know about it but at this time I don’t know how to duplicate the trick in NvDA? So I turn on JAWS for expediting my task.

As for the recommendation to them: I think HTML is best, although ARIA will work. I just think that the current mix is insufficient for meeting the standards for either.

I suspect they may have been trying to avoid the <table> element to help with scrolling, for example.

 

 

From: Brandon Keith Biggs [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Monday, January 9, 2017 2:57 PM
To: NVDA screen reader development <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Nvda-devel] NVDA not reading a table

 

Hello,

Thank you! Where did you find the role information? Does NVDA say this somewhere? Or did you read their javascript? I currently use the ctrl+u shortcut on ff to read html, on a web page, but I am not good at finding specific sections in javascript web apps.

I am working with them to make these tables work correctly. Their problem is that they needed a table with scrolling and the ability to capture click events. My typical advice is to tell people to get rid of aria markup and just use HTML, so I think that is what I will do here.

Thanks,


 

On Mon, Jan 9, 2017 at 11:48 AM, Travis Roth <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hello Brandon,

The QuickBooks Online bank register table is quite a mess.

There is a mixture of ARIA and HTML table code. For example, cells in the table have TH and TD tags. But there is not a <table> tag to hold it together, they’re using a <div> with a  role=grid to the best I can tell for the container. And possibly a <div> with a role=row instead of <tr> tags.

So a screen reader has to be up to processing the combination. I am not sure that is a fair ask for NVDA.

 

If you start editing a row it becomes even worse.

 

Travis

 

 

From: Brandon Keith Biggs [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Friday, January 6, 2017 5:58 AM
To: NVDA screen reader development <[hidden email]>
Subject: [Nvda-devel] NVDA not reading a table

 

Hello,

Does anyone know what is going on with this table?

I was using the bank register screen of Quickbooks online with NVDA and there is a table there that shows all transactions. The header row reads just fine, (although there seems to be a section above the table that looks to be in the table element, but it is above the header. When I move through the header I can use ctrl+alt+ left and right arrow to move through the headers, but up and down arrow say "edge of table". When I down arrow past the header, I see the transactions, but when I press ctrl+alt left and right, 1 of two things happens:

1. I jump back up to the header row and start moving through the header row.

2. NVDA says nothing.

Does anyone know what is going on with this? I have never seen this behavior before. Each cell has an event listener because when you click on the cell something happens and you can edit that transaction.

I am guessing it has something to do with the html not being correct, but I don't know anything above that and if I report "your table is not working, please make it proper html" they will not do anything.

So I would like to know if anyone knows what is missing or wrong with a table that acts like this?

I am using NVDA 16.4, firefox 50.1.0 on a Windows 10.

Thank you,


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Re: NVDA not reading a table

Stefan Moisei
In reply to this post by Brandon Keith Biggs
Instead of searching through the entire source to get at the wanted element, you can use inspect element, found in firefox’s context menu. It has become accessible recently.
Another benefit is that you can see the markup added with javascript, which you can’t do by viewing the source.
Sent: Monday, January 9, 2017 10:56 PM
Subject: Re: [Nvda-devel] NVDA not reading a table
 
Hello,
Thank you! Where did you find the role information? Does NVDA say this somewhere? Or did you read their javascript? I currently use the ctrl+u shortcut on ff to read html, on a web page, but I am not good at finding specific sections in javascript web apps.

I am working with them to make these tables work correctly. Their problem is that they needed a table with scrolling and the ability to capture click events. My typical advice is to tell people to get rid of aria markup and just use HTML, so I think that is what I will do here.
Thanks,

 
 
On Mon, Jan 9, 2017 at 11:48 AM, Travis Roth <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hello Brandon,

The QuickBooks Online bank register table is quite a mess.

There is a mixture of ARIA and HTML table code. For example, cells in the table have TH and TD tags. But there is not a <table> tag to hold it together, they’re using a <div> with a  role=grid to the best I can tell for the container. And possibly a <div> with a role=row instead of <tr> tags.

So a screen reader has to be up to processing the combination. I am not sure that is a fair ask for NVDA.

 

If you start editing a row it becomes even worse.

 

Travis

 

 

From: Brandon Keith Biggs [mailto:brandonkeithbiggs@gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, January 6, 2017 5:58 AM
To: NVDA screen reader development <[hidden email].net>
Subject: [Nvda-devel] NVDA not reading a table

 

Hello,

Does anyone know what is going on with this table?

I was using the bank register screen of Quickbooks online with NVDA and there is a table there that shows all transactions. The header row reads just fine, (although there seems to be a section above the table that looks to be in the table element, but it is above the header. When I move through the header I can use ctrl+alt+ left and right arrow to move through the headers, but up and down arrow say "edge of table". When I down arrow past the header, I see the transactions, but when I press ctrl+alt left and right, 1 of two things happens:

1. I jump back up to the header row and start moving through the header row.

2. NVDA says nothing.

Does anyone know what is going on with this? I have never seen this behavior before. Each cell has an event listener because when you click on the cell something happens and you can edit that transaction.

I am guessing it has something to do with the html not being correct, but I don't know anything above that and if I report "your table is not working, please make it proper html" they will not do anything.

So I would like to know if anyone knows what is missing or wrong with a table that acts like this?

I am using NVDA 16.4, firefox 50.1.0 on a Windows 10.

Thank you,


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