[NVDA-dev] People who run from source: nvdaHelper builds on the snapshots page

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[NVDA-dev] People who run from source: nvdaHelper builds on the snapshots page

James Teh
Hi,

For various reasons, we want everyone to build nvdaHelper themselves;
i.e. remove the nvdaHelper builds from the snapshots page. This requires
the Windows SDK (which is quite large) among other dependencies. I need
to know why people are running from source and whether this will be a
major problem.

* If you're running from source and are already building nvdaHelper,
you're already okay.
* If you're a translator, you don't need to run from source. The .pot
file for each snapshot is available on the snapshots page, so you can
just use this for translation. You can download any documentation source
files via the web interface.
        - Is there some other reason translators need to run from source?
* If you're running from source just because you can or because you're
interested in development, then you should be building nvdaHelper
yourself. nvdaHelper is a part of NVDA's source code, so if you want to
run from source, you should also build nvdaHelper.
* Are there any other reasons people are running from source?

Reasons we want to make this change:
* Having nvdaHelper as a component that may or may not be built by the
user makes the build process indefinite.
* This means that a single command to build the whole of NVDA (including
nvdaHelper) isn't really possible, which is what we want to move towards
to make everyone's lives easier, not least ours.
* In addition, many users forget to update their binary copy of
nvdaHelper and then wonder why things break. This way, one command would
build it if necessary.

Jamie

--
James Teh
Vice President
NV Access Inc, ABN 61773362390
Email: [hidden email]
Web site: http://www.nvaccess.org/


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Re: [NVDA-dev] People who run from source: nvdaHelper builds on the snapshots page

mk360
Hi,

Well, I'm not a translator, but I think they probably need the NVDA
source to ilustrate the context of some words. For example, I translated
NVDASD to spanish sometime ago, and in a option like "keep file after
download" I can use two posible translations, one literally and other
like don't remove the downloaded file (no borrar el archivo una vez
descargado), that I think sounds better (in spanish).

Regards,
mk.

El 09/11/2010 21:23, James Teh escribió:

> Hi,
>
> For various reasons, we want everyone to build nvdaHelper themselves;
> i.e. remove the nvdaHelper builds from the snapshots page. This requires
> the Windows SDK (which is quite large) among other dependencies. I need
> to know why people are running from source and whether this will be a
> major problem.
>
> * If you're running from source and are already building nvdaHelper,
> you're already okay.
> * If you're a translator, you don't need to run from source. The .pot
> file for each snapshot is available on the snapshots page, so you can
> just use this for translation. You can download any documentation source
> files via the web interface.
> - Is there some other reason translators need to run from source?
> * If you're running from source just because you can or because you're
> interested in development, then you should be building nvdaHelper
> yourself. nvdaHelper is a part of NVDA's source code, so if you want to
> run from source, you should also build nvdaHelper.
> * Are there any other reasons people are running from source?
>
> Reasons we want to make this change:
> * Having nvdaHelper as a component that may or may not be built by the
> user makes the build process indefinite.
> * This means that a single command to build the whole of NVDA (including
> nvdaHelper) isn't really possible, which is what we want to move towards
> to make everyone's lives easier, not least ours.
> * In addition, many users forget to update their binary copy of
> nvdaHelper and then wonder why things break. This way, one command would
> build it if necessary.
>
> Jamie
>


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Re: [NVDA-dev] People who run from source: nvdaHelper builds on the snapshots page

James Teh
On 10/11/2010 10:44 AM, mk360 wrote:
> Well, I'm not a translator, but I think they probably need the NVDA
> source to ilustrate the context of some words.
To clarify, the source code will still be available as it always has
been. However, building/running from source will now require the Windows
SDK. You don't need to build/run to read the code, though.

Jamie

--
James Teh
Vice President
NV Access Inc, ABN 61773362390
Email: [hidden email]
Web site: http://www.nvaccess.org/


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Re: [NVDA-dev] People who run from source: nvdaHelper builds on the snapshots page

Martina Letochová
I remember having problems installing one of the required components so in
the end I left it and for now I get the nvdaHelper from the snapshots page
(BTW, maybe it could be on the 3rdParty page instead? That would fit it
better as there are already other files needed for the source anyway). I'll
try again when I get all the files; I'm still missing the
Adobe_accessibility_9.1.zip archive; I can still get to the page with the
files but when I click to download the particular file there is an error
that the page is not available; so anywhere else to get it?
Martina

--------------------------------------------------
From: "James Teh" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2010 2:51 AM
To: "NVDA screen reader development" <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [NVDA-dev] People who run from source: nvdaHelper builds on the
snapshots page

On 10/11/2010 10:44 AM, mk360 wrote:
> Well, I'm not a translator, but I think they probably need the NVDA
> source to ilustrate the context of some words.
To clarify, the source code will still be available as it always has
been. However, building/running from source will now require the Windows
SDK. You don't need to build/run to read the code, though.

Jamie

--
James Teh
Vice President
NV Access Inc, ABN 61773362390
Email: [hidden email]
Web site: http://www.nvaccess.org/

_______________________________________________
NVDA-dev mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.nvaccess.org/listinfo/nvda-dev 



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Re: [NVDA-dev] People who run from source: nvdaHelper builds on thesnapshots page

Mike Bledig-2
Hi Martina, the download link must be broken.

I can send you the file you need: Adobe_accessibility_9.1.zip archive if you
still cant retrieve it

Mike



-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Martina Letochová
Sent: 10 November 2010 05:11 AM
To: NVDA screen reader development
Subject: Re: [NVDA-dev] People who run from source: nvdaHelper builds on
thesnapshots page

I remember having problems installing one of the required components so in
the end I left it and for now I get the nvdaHelper from the snapshots page
(BTW, maybe it could be on the 3rdParty page instead? That would fit it
better as there are already other files needed for the source anyway). I'll
try again when I get all the files; I'm still missing the
Adobe_accessibility_9.1.zip archive; I can still get to the page with the
files but when I click to download the particular file there is an error
that the page is not available; so anywhere else to get it?
Martina

--------------------------------------------------
From: "James Teh" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2010 2:51 AM
To: "NVDA screen reader development" <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [NVDA-dev] People who run from source: nvdaHelper builds on the

snapshots page

On 10/11/2010 10:44 AM, mk360 wrote:
> Well, I'm not a translator, but I think they probably need the NVDA
> source to ilustrate the context of some words.
To clarify, the source code will still be available as it always has
been. However, building/running from source will now require the Windows
SDK. You don't need to build/run to read the code, though.

Jamie

--
James Teh
Vice President
NV Access Inc, ABN 61773362390
Email: [hidden email]
Web site: http://www.nvaccess.org/

_______________________________________________
NVDA-dev mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.nvaccess.org/listinfo/nvda-dev 


_______________________________________________
NVDA-dev mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.nvaccess.org/listinfo/nvda-dev



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Re: [NVDA-dev] People who run from source: nvdaHelper builds on thesnapshots page

Mike Bledig-2
In reply to this post by James Teh
Hi,

I feel that if people are running from source, then they should build the
nvda helper themselves.  If they cant, or don't want too, then running from
source isn't for them, and they should be running the pre builds.

Building the nvda helper isn't difficult at all, all that one needs to know
and do to build it, is there in the build.txt and readme.txt files

I like running from source, so I can see what's going on in the program, and
have a better understanding of what nvda is doing. Its amazing!

However, I wouldn't say or recommend this way of running nvda for most
users. They don't need to know what the poor thing is doing to let them know
what's happening on their Computers. But for those like myself that are
interested, its wonderful!

Mike

On 10 November 2010 02:23 AM, James The wrote:

Hi,

For various reasons, we want everyone to build nvdaHelper themselves;
i.e. remove the nvdaHelper builds from the snapshots page. This requires
the Windows SDK (which is quite large) among other dependencies. I need
to know why people are running from source and whether this will be a
major problem.

* If you're running from source and are already building nvdaHelper,
you're already okay.
* If you're a translator, you don't need to run from source. The .pot
file for each snapshot is available on the snapshots page, so you can
just use this for translation. You can download any documentation source
files via the web interface.
        - Is there some other reason translators need to run from source?
* If you're running from source just because you can or because you're
interested in development, then you should be building nvdaHelper
yourself. nvdaHelper is a part of NVDA's source code, so if you want to
run from source, you should also build nvdaHelper.
* Are there any other reasons people are running from source?

Reasons we want to make this change:
* Having nvdaHelper as a component that may or may not be built by the
user makes the build process indefinite.
* This means that a single command to build the whole of NVDA (including
nvdaHelper) isn't really possible, which is what we want to move towards
to make everyone's lives easier, not least ours.
* In addition, many users forget to update their binary copy of
nvdaHelper and then wonder why things break. This way, one command would
build it if necessary.

Jamie

--
James Teh
Vice President
NV Access Inc, ABN 61773362390
Email: [hidden email]
Web site: http://www.nvaccess.org/

_______________________________________________
NVDA-dev mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.nvaccess.org/listinfo/nvda-dev



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Re: [NVDA-dev] People who run from source: nvdaHelper builds on the snapshots page

kendell clark
In reply to this post by James Teh
well, i have been running from source for some time and I used to be
able to build nvda helper, but for some time now I seem unable to. every
time I try I get a message saying there is an error writing to
\build\x86\nvdaHelperLocal.cpp. no such file or directory. if I go into
win explorer i can clearly see this file does exist. I've tried scons
clean and deleting the entire nvda helper directory. can anyone help? I
haven't been able to update my  installed snapshot in some time because
i have been unable to build nvdaHelper.  I can download it from teh
website but if this is being removed I need to be able to solve this
before it is.
thanks
Kendell clark
On 11/9/2010 6:23 PM, James Teh wrote:

> Hi,
>
> For various reasons, we want everyone to build nvdaHelper themselves;
> i.e. remove the nvdaHelper builds from the snapshots page. This
> requires the Windows SDK (which is quite large) among other
> dependencies. I need to know why people are running from source and
> whether this will be a major problem.
>
> * If you're running from source and are already building nvdaHelper,
> you're already okay.
> * If you're a translator, you don't need to run from source. The .pot
> file for each snapshot is available on the snapshots page, so you can
> just use this for translation. You can download any documentation
> source files via the web interface.
>     - Is there some other reason translators need to run from source?
> * If you're running from source just because you can or because you're
> interested in development, then you should be building nvdaHelper
> yourself. nvdaHelper is a part of NVDA's source code, so if you want
> to run from source, you should also build nvdaHelper.
> * Are there any other reasons people are running from source?
>
> Reasons we want to make this change:
> * Having nvdaHelper as a component that may or may not be built by the
> user makes the build process indefinite.
> * This means that a single command to build the whole of NVDA
> (including nvdaHelper) isn't really possible, which is what we want to
> move towards to make everyone's lives easier, not least ours.
> * In addition, many users forget to update their binary copy of
> nvdaHelper and then wonder why things break. This way, one command
> would build it if necessary.
>
> Jamie
>



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Re: [NVDA-dev] People who run from source: nvdaHelper builds onthesnapshots page

Brian Gaff Lineone downstairs
In reply to this post by Mike Bledig-2
Well, I prefer the built snaps to trying to do it from source. I guess like
anything else once learned the  commands and environment and needed files
etc, are probably  easy to learn, but  to me, the finished snap is all I
need to see if anything goes better, worse or whatever. It can be useful at
times to look at the source code, but I'd have problems learning how to
change it correctly, as many do it seems, thus  there seems no real point in
me  trying to set it all up correctly.
 I can also see that it would be not good to have prebuilt bits included as
now as its prone to human, and thus machine error. Is it this way of
building snaps which has caused the recent failures of the auto builtd of
the sanapshots then?



Brian
Brian Gaff  [hidden email]- If you need to email me please send it
to
[hidden email]
Making sure the name 'Brian Gaff' is in the display name field.
Failure to do this may result in delays or message loss.

Some sacrifices are a fact of life in our junk mail  riddled world!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Bledig" <[hidden email]>
To: "'NVDA screen reader development'" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2010 8:29 AM
Subject: Re: [NVDA-dev] People who run from source: nvdaHelper builds
onthesnapshots page


> Hi,
>
> I feel that if people are running from source, then they should build the
> nvda helper themselves.  If they cant, or don't want too, then running
> from
> source isn't for them, and they should be running the pre builds.
>
> Building the nvda helper isn't difficult at all, all that one needs to
> know
> and do to build it, is there in the build.txt and readme.txt files
>
> I like running from source, so I can see what's going on in the program,
> and
> have a better understanding of what nvda is doing. Its amazing!
>
> However, I wouldn't say or recommend this way of running nvda for most
> users. They don't need to know what the poor thing is doing to let them
> know
> what's happening on their Computers. But for those like myself that are
> interested, its wonderful!
>
> Mike
>
> On 10 November 2010 02:23 AM, James The wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> For various reasons, we want everyone to build nvdaHelper themselves;
> i.e. remove the nvdaHelper builds from the snapshots page. This requires
> the Windows SDK (which is quite large) among other dependencies. I need
> to know why people are running from source and whether this will be a
> major problem.
>
> * If you're running from source and are already building nvdaHelper,
> you're already okay.
> * If you're a translator, you don't need to run from source. The .pot
> file for each snapshot is available on the snapshots page, so you can
> just use this for translation. You can download any documentation source
> files via the web interface.
> - Is there some other reason translators need to run from source?
> * If you're running from source just because you can or because you're
> interested in development, then you should be building nvdaHelper
> yourself. nvdaHelper is a part of NVDA's source code, so if you want to
> run from source, you should also build nvdaHelper.
> * Are there any other reasons people are running from source?
>
> Reasons we want to make this change:
> * Having nvdaHelper as a component that may or may not be built by the
> user makes the build process indefinite.
> * This means that a single command to build the whole of NVDA (including
> nvdaHelper) isn't really possible, which is what we want to move towards
> to make everyone's lives easier, not least ours.
> * In addition, many users forget to update their binary copy of
> nvdaHelper and then wonder why things break. This way, one command would
> build it if necessary.
>
> Jamie
>
> --
> James Teh
> Vice President
> NV Access Inc, ABN 61773362390
> Email: [hidden email]
> Web site: http://www.nvaccess.org/
>
> _______________________________________________
> NVDA-dev mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.nvaccess.org/listinfo/nvda-dev
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> NVDA-dev mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.nvaccess.org/listinfo/nvda-dev 



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Re: [NVDA-dev] People who run from source: nvdaHelper builds on the snapshots page

James Teh
In reply to this post by kendell clark
On 10/11/2010 7:19 PM, kendell clark wrote:
> well, i have been running from source for some time and I used to be
> able to build nvda helper, but for some time now I seem unable to. every
> time I try I get a message saying there is an error writing to
> \build\x86\nvdaHelperLocal.cpp. no such file or directory.
If you have a virus scanner, try disabling it. They can interfere with
fast writing/access of files.

Jamie

--
James Teh
Vice President
NV Access Inc, ABN 61773362390
Email: [hidden email]
Web site: http://www.nvaccess.org/


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Re: [NVDA-dev] People who run from source: nvdaHelper builds onthesnapshots page

James Teh
In reply to this post by Brian Gaff Lineone downstairs
On 10/11/2010 7:26 PM,  brian gafff (Line One) wrote:
>to me, the finished snap is
> all I need to see if anything goes better, worse or whatever.
Right. This is indeed the point of snapshots. :)

> I can also see that it would be not good to have prebuilt bits included
> as now as its prone to human, and thus machine error. Is it this way of
> building snaps which has caused the recent failures of the auto builtd
> of the sanapshots then?
Not quite. That is due to a package we are using called Cygwin, which
misbehaves randomly in Windows 7. However, my rewrite of the build
system will stop depending on Cygwin, and while I'm at it, I'm
streamlining the build process for everyone.

Jamie

--
James Teh
Vice President
NV Access Inc, ABN 61773362390
Email: [hidden email]
Web site: http://www.nvaccess.org/


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Re: [NVDA-dev] People who run from source: nvdaHelper builds on the snapshots page

James Teh
In reply to this post by Martina Letochová
On 10/11/2010 1:10 PM, Martina Letochová wrote:
> (BTW, maybe it could be on the 3rdParty page instead? That would fit it
> better as there are already other files needed for the source anyway).
The point here is to ensure that people build all of NVDA, including
nvdaHelper, not just part of it. That way, everything is built and
updated in one unified process.

> I'm still missing the
> Adobe_accessibility_9.1.zip archive; I can still get to the page with the
> files but when I click to download the particular file there is an error
> that the page is not available
I've notified Adobe of this problem. If they don't rectify it soon, I
guess we'll need to provide a mirror.

Jamie

--
James Teh
Vice President
NV Access Inc, ABN 61773362390
Email: [hidden email]
Web site: http://www.nvaccess.org/


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Re: [NVDA-dev] People who run from source: nvdaHelper builds on thesnapshots page

Martina Letochová
In reply to this post by Mike Bledig-2
Hi Mike, that would be great if you could send it, thanks; and of course the
correct name is Acrobat Accessibility; LOL! For now it seems to be still
unavailable, even on the downloads page itself it's not listed; hopefully
they can fix it soon.
Martina


--------------------------------------------------
From: "Mike Bledig" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2010 9:18 AM
To: "'NVDA screen reader development'" <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [NVDA-dev] People who run from source: nvdaHelper builds on
thesnapshots page

Hi Martina, the download link must be broken.

I can send you the file you need: Adobe_accessibility_9.1.zip archive if you
still cant retrieve it

Mike



-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Martina Letochová
Sent: 10 November 2010 05:11 AM
To: NVDA screen reader development
Subject: Re: [NVDA-dev] People who run from source: nvdaHelper builds on
thesnapshots page

I remember having problems installing one of the required components so in
the end I left it and for now I get the nvdaHelper from the snapshots page
(BTW, maybe it could be on the 3rdParty page instead? That would fit it
better as there are already other files needed for the source anyway). I'll
try again when I get all the files; I'm still missing the
Adobe_accessibility_9.1.zip archive; I can still get to the page with the
files but when I click to download the particular file there is an error
that the page is not available; so anywhere else to get it?
Martina

--------------------------------------------------
From: "James Teh" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2010 2:51 AM
To: "NVDA screen reader development" <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [NVDA-dev] People who run from source: nvdaHelper builds on the

snapshots page

On 10/11/2010 10:44 AM, mk360 wrote:
> Well, I'm not a translator, but I think they probably need the NVDA
> source to ilustrate the context of some words.
To clarify, the source code will still be available as it always has
been. However, building/running from source will now require the Windows
SDK. You don't need to build/run to read the code, though.

Jamie

--
James Teh
Vice President
NV Access Inc, ABN 61773362390
Email: [hidden email]
Web site: http://www.nvaccess.org/

_______________________________________________
NVDA-dev mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.nvaccess.org/listinfo/nvda-dev


_______________________________________________
NVDA-dev mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.nvaccess.org/listinfo/nvda-dev


_______________________________________________
NVDA-dev mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.nvaccess.org/listinfo/nvda-dev 



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Re: [NVDA-dev] People who run from source: nvdaHelper builds on thesnapshots page

James Teh
On 10/11/2010 9:45 PM, Martina Letochová wrote:
> Hi Mike, that would be great if you could send it, thanks; and of course the
> correct name is Acrobat Accessibility; LOL!
Here's a temporary mirror until they fix this:
http://nvda.sourceforge.net/3rdParty/acrobat_accessibility_9.1.zip

Jamie

--
James Teh
Vice President
NV Access Inc, ABN 61773362390
Email: [hidden email]
Web site: http://www.nvaccess.org/


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Re: [NVDA-dev] People who run from source: nvdaHelper builds on the snapshots page

Brian Gaff Lineone downstairs
In reply to this post by James Teh
I'd concur with this one. I've had problems with them scanning files as they
are opened resulting in weird errors when trying to delete even from the
recycle bin, or rename in a batch process. Turn off real time scanning and
sweetness and light returns. AVGs last offering did this a lot, not tested
it with the new one yet.
 I think it may be worse on single core machines.

 Brian
Brian Gaff  [hidden email]- If you need to email me please send it
to
[hidden email]
Making sure the name 'Brian Gaff' is in the display name field.
Failure to do this may result in delays or message loss.

Some sacrifices are a fact of life in our junk mail  riddled world!
----- Original Message -----
From: "James Teh" <[hidden email]>
To: "NVDA screen reader development" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2010 10:59 AM
Subject: Re: [NVDA-dev] People who run from source: nvdaHelper builds on the
snapshots page


> On 10/11/2010 7:19 PM, kendell clark wrote:
>> well, i have been running from source for some time and I used to be
>> able to build nvda helper, but for some time now I seem unable to. every
>> time I try I get a message saying there is an error writing to
>> \build\x86\nvdaHelperLocal.cpp. no such file or directory.
> If you have a virus scanner, try disabling it. They can interfere with
> fast writing/access of files.
>
> Jamie
>
> --
> James Teh
> Vice President
> NV Access Inc, ABN 61773362390
> Email: [hidden email]
> Web site: http://www.nvaccess.org/
>
> _______________________________________________
> NVDA-dev mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.nvaccess.org/listinfo/nvda-dev 



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Re: [NVDA-dev] People who run from source: nvdaHelper builds on the snapshots page

kendell clark
In reply to this post by James Teh
thanks, I've disabled it. I'll try again.
thanks
On 11/10/2010 4:59 AM, James Teh wrote:

> On 10/11/2010 7:19 PM, kendell clark wrote:
>> well, i have been running from source for some time and I used to be
>> able to build nvda helper, but for some time now I seem unable to. every
>> time I try I get a message saying there is an error writing to
>> \build\x86\nvdaHelperLocal.cpp. no such file or directory.
> If you have a virus scanner, try disabling it. They can interfere with
> fast writing/access of files.
>
> Jamie
>