[NVDA-dev] Developer Guide in languages other than English

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[NVDA-dev] Developer Guide in languages other than English

James Teh
Hi Peter, translators,

I notice the Developer Guide has been translated into a few languages
now. When we wrote the Developer Guide, we didn't really intend it to be
translated into other languages. We figured that the code and Python
itself is very much based around English, so there was little point in
having it translated, since the reader would have to understand English
anyway. Also, the code documentation (when it is auto-generated) will
all be in English. This is why we put it in the root directory instead
of in user_docs\en. Another reason for not translating the Developer
Guide is that I don't want to have to freeze longer so its translation
can be updated, especially as it won't affect most users.

I guess now that this has been translated, it's hard to reject the work.
However, as for the English version, they should not be included with
binary builds and it will be the community's responsibility to generate
and make html versions available. (I don't think it makes sense to
include the Developer Guide in binary builds, as the rest of the code
documentation isn't included and it would be quite large if it were.)

I suspect html files are already being generated for these guides and
will therefore end up in binary builds. They need to be moved out of
user_docs to prevent this. Perhaps we need to reintroduce developer_docs
and move them there.

Thoughts?

Jamie

--
James Teh
Vice President, Developer
NV Access Inc, ABN 61773362390
Email: [hidden email]
Web site: http://www.nvaccess.org/


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Re: [NVDA-dev] Developer Guide in languages other than English

Simone Dal Maso (mobile)
I totally agree.
I didn't translate the guide in italian, because if a person wants to write code, the logic and native language is english. It is also quite difficult use italian terms instead of english in this situation, and there is the risk that people can be confused.
 


----- messaggio originale -----
da: James Teh <[hidden email]>
a: NVDA development mailing list <[hidden email]>
data: mercoledì, 3 agosto 2011 07:30:02
oggetto: [NVDA-dev] Developer Guide in languages other than English

>
>
> Hi Peter, translators,
>
> I notice the Developer Guide has been translated into a few languages
> now. When we wrote the Developer Guide, we didn't really intend it to be
> translated into other languages. We figured that the code and Python
> itself is very much based around English, so there was little point in
> having it translated, since the reader would have to understand English
> anyway. Also, the code documentation (when it is auto-generated) will
> all be in English. This is why we put it in the root directory instead
> of in user_docs\en. Another reason for not translating the Developer
> Guide is that I don't want to have to freeze longer so its translation
> can be updated, especially as it won't affect most users.
>
> I guess now that this has been translated, it's hard to reject the work.
> However, as for the English version, they should not be included with
> binary builds and it will be the community's responsibility to generate
> and make html versions available. (I don't think it makes sense to
> include the Developer Guide in binary builds, as the rest of the code
> documentation isn't included and it would be quite large if it were.)
>
> I suspect html files are already being generated for these guides and
> will therefore end up in binary builds. They need to be moved out of
> user_docs to prevent this. Perhaps we need to reintroduce developer_docs
> and move them there.
>
> Thoughts?
>
> Jamie
>
> --
> James Teh
> Vice President, Developer
> NV Access Inc, ABN 61773362390
> Email: [hidden email]
> Web site: http://www.nvaccess.org/
>
> _______________________________________________
> NVDA-dev mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.nvaccess.org/listinfo/nvda-dev


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Re: [NVDA-dev] Developer Guide in languages other than English

Michel Such
Hi,
 
Same thing for french.
I did not translate this guide since I suppose that someone wanting to write code for NVDA first needs to have a minimal of English to access technical documentation, not only for NVDA but also for languages used for it.
Anyway, someone here translated it, but we put the translation on the french NVDA site.
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2011 8:19 AM
Subject: Re: [NVDA-dev]Developer Guide in languages other than English

I totally agree.
I didn't translate the guide in italian, because if a person wants to write code, the logic and native language is english. It is also quite difficult use italian terms instead of english in this situation, and there is the risk that people can be confused.
 


----- messaggio originale -----
da: James Teh <[hidden email]>
a: NVDA development mailing list <[hidden email]>
data: mercoledì, 3 agosto 2011 07:30:02
oggetto: [NVDA-dev] Developer Guide in languages other than English

>
>
> Hi Peter, translators,
>
> I notice the Developer Guide has been translated into a few languages
> now. When we wrote the Developer Guide, we didn't really intend it to be
> translated into other languages. We figured that the code and Python
> itself is very much based around English, so there was little point in
> having it translated, since the reader would have to understand English
> anyway. Also, the code documentation (when it is auto-generated) will
> all be in English. This is why we put it in the root directory instead
> of in user_docs\en. Another reason for not translating the Developer
> Guide is that I don't want to have to freeze longer so its translation
> can be updated, especially as it won't affect most users.
>
> I guess now that this has been translated, it's hard to reject the work.
> However, as for the English version, they should not be included with
> binary builds and it will be the community's responsibility to generate
> and make html versions available. (I don't think it makes sense to
> include the Developer Guide in binary builds, as the rest of the code
> documentation isn't included and it would be quite large if it were.)
>
> I suspect html files are already being generated for these guides and
> will therefore end up in binary builds. They need to be moved out of
> user_docs to prevent this. Perhaps we need to reintroduce developer_docs
> and move them there.
>
> Thoughts?
>
> Jamie
>
> --
> James Teh
> Vice President, Developer
> NV Access Inc, ABN 61773362390
> Email: [hidden email]
> Web site: http://www.nvaccess.org/
>
> _______________________________________________
> NVDA-dev mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.nvaccess.org/listinfo/nvda-dev

_______________________________________________
NVDA-dev mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.nvaccess.org/listinfo/nvda-dev
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Re: [NVDA-dev] Developer Guide in languages other than English

Mesar Hameed
In reply to this post by James Teh
On Wed 03/08/2011 at 15:29:20, James Teh wrote:

> Hi Peter, translators,
>
> I notice the Developer Guide has been translated into a few
> languages now. When we wrote the Developer Guide, we didn't really
> intend it to be translated into other languages. We figured that the
> code and Python itself is very much based around English, so there
> was little point in having it translated, since the reader would
> have to understand English anyway. Also, the code documentation
> (when it is auto-generated) will all be in English. This is why we
> put it in the root directory instead of in user_docs\en. Another
> reason for not translating the Developer Guide is that I don't want
> to have to freeze longer so its translation can be updated,
> especially as it won't affect most users.

Agreed

> I guess now that this has been translated, it's hard to reject the
> work. However, as for the English version, they should not be
> included with binary builds and it will be the community's
> responsibility to generate and make html versions available. (I
> don't think it makes sense to include the Developer Guide in binary
> builds, as the rest of the code documentation isn't included and it
> would be quite large if it were.)

It would be good if the nightly build system could create html files to
be linked from the wiki, If I remember correctly you are doing this
update by hand at the moment (for the developer guide).


> I suspect html files are already being generated for these guides
> and will therefore end up in binary builds. They need to be moved
> out of user_docs to prevent this. Perhaps we need to reintroduce
> developer_docs and move them there.

Yes, having developer_docs directory is preferable.
As others have suggested, only English docs should be included, maybe
the already translated developer guides should be kept by their
respective teams on their websites, and it is their choise if they wish
to maintain it.

The focus for us should be on having a high standard translation for
each language of the interface/userguide.


> Thoughts?
>
> Jamie
>

Best,

Mesar


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Re: [NVDA-dev] Developer Guide in languages other than English

James Teh
On 3/08/2011 4:50 PM, Mesar Hameed wrote:
> It would be good if the nightly build system could create html files to
> be linked from the wiki, If I remember correctly you are doing this
> update by hand at the moment (for the developer guide).
We do want to do this eventually. It's just a matter of finding the
time. :) However, since the code docs will only be in English, we
wouldn't be generating the HTML Developer Guide for any other language.

Jamie

--
James Teh
Vice President, Developer
NV Access Inc, ABN 61773362390
Email: [hidden email]
Web site: http://www.nvaccess.org/


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Re: [NVDA-dev] Developer Guide in languages other than English

Peter Vágner
In reply to this post by Mesar Hameed
Hello,
Some contributors have even translated or provided already translated
version of the licence which is now put into the respective locale
specific folder inside user_docs.
I think we can do the same with the translation of developer guide.
I think we need to wait for comments from people who have actually
translated and submitted their translations of developer guide.
I think especially marlin rodrigues da silva from the brazilian
portuguese team has put some extra efforts in doing it.

Greetings

Peter



On 3.8.2011 8:50, Mesar Hameed  wrote:

> On Wed 03/08/2011 at 15:29:20, James Teh wrote:
>> Hi Peter, translators,
>>
>> I notice the Developer Guide has been translated into a few
>> languages now. When we wrote the Developer Guide, we didn't really
>> intend it to be translated into other languages. We figured that the
>> code and Python itself is very much based around English, so there
>> was little point in having it translated, since the reader would
>> have to understand English anyway. Also, the code documentation
>> (when it is auto-generated) will all be in English. This is why we
>> put it in the root directory instead of in user_docs\en. Another
>> reason for not translating the Developer Guide is that I don't want
>> to have to freeze longer so its translation can be updated,
>> especially as it won't affect most users.
> Agreed
>
>> I guess now that this has been translated, it's hard to reject the
>> work. However, as for the English version, they should not be
>> included with binary builds and it will be the community's
>> responsibility to generate and make html versions available. (I
>> don't think it makes sense to include the Developer Guide in binary
>> builds, as the rest of the code documentation isn't included and it
>> would be quite large if it were.)
> It would be good if the nightly build system could create html files to
> be linked from the wiki, If I remember correctly you are doing this
> update by hand at the moment (for the developer guide).
>
>
>> I suspect html files are already being generated for these guides
>> and will therefore end up in binary builds. They need to be moved
>> out of user_docs to prevent this. Perhaps we need to reintroduce
>> developer_docs and move them there.
> Yes, having developer_docs directory is preferable.
> As others have suggested, only English docs should be included, maybe
> the already translated developer guides should be kept by their
> respective teams on their websites, and it is their choise if they wish
> to maintain it.
>
> The focus for us should be on having a high standard translation for
> each language of the interface/userguide.
>
>
>> Thoughts?
>>
>> Jamie
>>
> Best,
>
> Mesar
>
> _______________________________________________
> NVDA-dev mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.nvaccess.org/listinfo/nvda-dev
>


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Re: [NVDA-dev] Developer Guide in languages other than English

James Teh
Hi,

On 3/08/2011 5:17 PM, Peter Vágner wrote:
> Some contributors have even translated or provided already translated
> version of the licence which is now put into the respective locale
> specific folder inside user_docs.
I'm not sure I agree with this either, as we can't trust the validity of
the translated license and this has legal implications. Nevertheless,
this is different because it is user documentation, not developer
documentation.

> I think we can do the same with the translation of developer guide.
At the very least, it does not belong inside user_docs, as it should not
be included in binary builds.

Jamie

--
James Teh
Vice President, Developer
NV Access Inc, ABN 61773362390
Email: [hidden email]
Web site: http://www.nvaccess.org/


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Re: [NVDA-dev] Developer Guide in languages other than English

Homme, James
In reply to this post by James Teh
Hi,
I feel that all developer guides should be separate.

Jim

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of James Teh
Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2011 1:29 AM
To: NVDA development mailing list
Subject: [NVDA-dev] Developer Guide in languages other than English

Hi Peter, translators,

I notice the Developer Guide has been translated into a few languages
now. When we wrote the Developer Guide, we didn't really intend it to be
translated into other languages. We figured that the code and Python
itself is very much based around English, so there was little point in
having it translated, since the reader would have to understand English
anyway. Also, the code documentation (when it is auto-generated) will
all be in English. This is why we put it in the root directory instead
of in user_docs\en. Another reason for not translating the Developer
Guide is that I don't want to have to freeze longer so its translation
can be updated, especially as it won't affect most users.

I guess now that this has been translated, it's hard to reject the work.
However, as for the English version, they should not be included with
binary builds and it will be the community's responsibility to generate
and make html versions available. (I don't think it makes sense to
include the Developer Guide in binary builds, as the rest of the code
documentation isn't included and it would be quite large if it were.)

I suspect html files are already being generated for these guides and
will therefore end up in binary builds. They need to be moved out of
user_docs to prevent this. Perhaps we need to reintroduce developer_docs
and move them there.

Thoughts?

Jamie

--
James Teh
Vice President, Developer
NV Access Inc, ABN 61773362390
Email: [hidden email]
Web site: http://www.nvaccess.org/

_______________________________________________
NVDA-dev mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.nvaccess.org/listinfo/nvda-dev

This e-mail and any attachments to it are confidential and are intended solely for use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed.  If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately and then delete it.  If you are not the intended recipient, you must not keep, use, disclose, copy or distribute this e-mail without the author's prior permission.  The views expressed in this e-mail message do not necessarily represent the views of Highmark Inc., its subsidiaries, or affiliates.


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Re: [NVDA-dev] Developer Guide in languages other than English

RJ Sandefur
In reply to this post by Michel Such
Where do I find the developer guide? RJ
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2011 2:31 AM
Subject: Re: [NVDA-dev] Developer Guide in languages other than English

Hi,
 
Same thing for french.
I did not translate this guide since I suppose that someone wanting to write code for NVDA first needs to have a minimal of English to access technical documentation, not only for NVDA but also for languages used for it.
Anyway, someone here translated it, but we put the translation on the french NVDA site.
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2011 8:19 AM
Subject: Re: [NVDA-dev]Developer Guide in languages other than English

I totally agree.
I didn't translate the guide in italian, because if a person wants to write code, the logic and native language is english. It is also quite difficult use italian terms instead of english in this situation, and there is the risk that people can be confused.
 


----- messaggio originale -----
da: James Teh <[hidden email]>
a: NVDA development mailing list <[hidden email]>
data: mercoledì, 3 agosto 2011 07:30:02
oggetto: [NVDA-dev] Developer Guide in languages other than English

>
>
> Hi Peter, translators,
>
> I notice the Developer Guide has been translated into a few languages
> now. When we wrote the Developer Guide, we didn't really intend it to be
> translated into other languages. We figured that the code and Python
> itself is very much based around English, so there was little point in
> having it translated, since the reader would have to understand English
> anyway. Also, the code documentation (when it is auto-generated) will
> all be in English. This is why we put it in the root directory instead
> of in user_docs\en. Another reason for not translating the Developer
> Guide is that I don't want to have to freeze longer so its translation
> can be updated, especially as it won't affect most users.
>
> I guess now that this has been translated, it's hard to reject the work.
> However, as for the English version, they should not be included with
> binary builds and it will be the community's responsibility to generate
> and make html versions available. (I don't think it makes sense to
> include the Developer Guide in binary builds, as the rest of the code
> documentation isn't included and it would be quite large if it were.)
>
> I suspect html files are already being generated for these guides and
> will therefore end up in binary builds. They need to be moved out of
> user_docs to prevent this. Perhaps we need to reintroduce developer_docs
> and move them there.
>
> Thoughts?
>
> Jamie
>
> --
> James Teh
> Vice President, Developer
> NV Access Inc, ABN 61773362390
> Email: [hidden email]
> Web site: http://www.nvaccess.org/
>
> _______________________________________________
> NVDA-dev mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.nvaccess.org/listinfo/nvda-dev

_______________________________________________
NVDA-dev mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.nvaccess.org/listinfo/nvda-dev


_______________________________________________
NVDA-dev mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.nvaccess.org/listinfo/nvda-dev
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Re: [NVDA-dev] Developer Guide in languages other than English

Brian Gaff Lineone downstairs
In reply to this post by Homme, James
Hi, I am of the opinion that to include non user orientated stuff in the
final builds is going to make the archive grow very large for little extra
usage.
 My feeling for a while now is that someone should attempt to get together
at least a page of links to all the associated bits and pieces, like Skype
talking stuff supporting extra software, like app modules for station
playlist for example and nvdas downloader and no doubt lots of other things
that have slipped under the radar of many of us.  it would mean that anyone
putting items up should be made aware that it is their responsibility to
advise the admin of said page of any changes. Developer guides in other
languages could be part of this. Not sure what one would call such an area
though a semi similar one does exist already, I know, but its not that up to
date. But obviously care would need to be taken to not allow dodgy content
to be accessed on this page.
 As regards translations  of licences, be very very careful. I used to run a
software registration site for a piece of software and doing this  got me in
no end of arguments with people in other countries who would  continuously
dispute the correctness of translations.

 Luckily I kept my hair. its hard to administer things when you don't speak
the language!
Brian
Brian Gaff  [hidden email]- If you need to email me please send it
to
[hidden email]
Making sure the name 'Brian Gaff' is in the display name field.
Failure to do this may result in delays or message loss.

Some sacrifices are a fact of life in our junk mail  riddled world!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Homme, James" <[hidden email]>
To: "NVDA screen reader development" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2011 11:47 AM
Subject: Re: [NVDA-dev] Developer Guide in languages other than English


> Hi,
> I feel that all developer guides should be separate.
>
> Jim
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of James Teh
> Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2011 1:29 AM
> To: NVDA development mailing list
> Subject: [NVDA-dev] Developer Guide in languages other than English
>
> Hi Peter, translators,
>
> I notice the Developer Guide has been translated into a few languages
> now. When we wrote the Developer Guide, we didn't really intend it to be
> translated into other languages. We figured that the code and Python
> itself is very much based around English, so there was little point in
> having it translated, since the reader would have to understand English
> anyway. Also, the code documentation (when it is auto-generated) will
> all be in English. This is why we put it in the root directory instead
> of in user_docs\en. Another reason for not translating the Developer
> Guide is that I don't want to have to freeze longer so its translation
> can be updated, especially as it won't affect most users.
>
> I guess now that this has been translated, it's hard to reject the work.
> However, as for the English version, they should not be included with
> binary builds and it will be the community's responsibility to generate
> and make html versions available. (I don't think it makes sense to
> include the Developer Guide in binary builds, as the rest of the code
> documentation isn't included and it would be quite large if it were.)
>
> I suspect html files are already being generated for these guides and
> will therefore end up in binary builds. They need to be moved out of
> user_docs to prevent this. Perhaps we need to reintroduce developer_docs
> and move them there.
>
> Thoughts?
>
> Jamie
>
> --
> James Teh
> Vice President, Developer
> NV Access Inc, ABN 61773362390
> Email: [hidden email]
> Web site: http://www.nvaccess.org/
>
> _______________________________________________
> NVDA-dev mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.nvaccess.org/listinfo/nvda-dev
>
> This e-mail and any attachments to it are confidential and are intended
> solely for use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed.  If
> you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender
> immediately and then delete it.  If you are not the intended recipient,
> you must not keep, use, disclose, copy or distribute this e-mail without
> the author's prior permission.  The views expressed in this e-mail message
> do not necessarily represent the views of Highmark Inc., its subsidiaries,
> or affiliates.
>
> _______________________________________________
> NVDA-dev mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.nvaccess.org/listinfo/nvda-dev