[NVDA] Coding webpages with formatting

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[NVDA] Coding webpages with formatting

Huvie Schwarz
Hi,

I have run into the following challenges while running NVDA with my web page.

1) It seems that NVDA will stop before formatted text, for example underlined text. We format our text either with HTML tags like <U> or span tags with classes. It seems that NVDA will stop before either method.

2) I am working on designing an online exam where one item per page is displayed and you hit the "Next" button to move on to the next question. The focus is not always set to the top of the page. Is there a way to set that?

Any help is appreciated, thanks!!

Huvie

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about health and NVDA voices

criss
Hello every body. I need information please. I don’t know if this information is trwe o false, but a friends show me a text. says that some sintes voices like eloquence o speack, get problems to ear, because when people put so speed this voices then can get bigger problems. the information says that diferents health organizations in the world tell about this problems, but i don’t know if is trwe. do you meet a investigation, a pappers or any formal information?.

regards. 

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Re: about health and NVDA voices

Amanda Lacy
Hmm. Is it possible for speech synthesizers to emit seizure-inducing sounds?
On 8/15/2014 12:18 PM, crisspro wrote:
Hello every body. I need information please. I don’t know if this information is trwe o false, but a friends show me a text. says that some sintes voices like eloquence o speack, get problems to ear, because when people put so speed this voices then can get bigger problems. the information says that diferents health organizations in the world tell about this problems, but i don’t know if is trwe. do you meet a investigation, a pappers or any formal information?.

regards. 


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Re: about health and NVDA voices

Joseph Lee
In reply to this post by criss
Hi,
I'm a bit skeptical.  Do you know where your friends got this
information, like the address for an article or from a doctor?
A possible complications I see would be hearing issues after
listening to the synthesizer for a long time.
Cheers,
Joseph

 ----- Original Message -----
From: Amanda Lacy <[hidden email]
To: NVDA screen reader development
<[hidden email]
Date sent: Fri, 15 Aug 2014 12:34:37 -0500
Subject: Re: [Nvda-devel] about health and NVDA voices

Hmm.  Is it possible for speech synthesizers to emit
seizure-inducing sounds?
On 8/15/2014 12:18 PM, crisspro wrote:
 Hello every body.  I need information please.  I don't know if
this
 information is trwe o false, but a friends show me a text.  says
that
 some sintes voices like eloquence o speack, get problems to ear,
 because when people put so speed this voices then can get bigger
 problems.  the information says that diferents health
organizations in
 the world tell about this problems, but i don't know if is trwe.  
do
 you meet a investigation, a pappers or any formal information?.

 regards.


 
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Re: about health and NVDA voices

Sarah Alawami
I to am very schectable. Sure tha tlistening for long periods can cause hearing los, I shoudl know, I have it, just like reading for a long time wiht out rest for the eyes will cause damage.  but yeah do you have a link to an article as, right now it sounds like a bunch of mush to me.  

There is no evidence that this can or  has hapepend in the past.  So until we flip, I want written proof this happens with evidence, stats, a controled experiment, etc etc etc.
On Aug 15, 2014, at 10:55 AM, Joseph Lee <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi,
> I'm a bit skeptical.  Do you know where your friends got this
> information, like the address for an article or from a doctor?
> A possible complications I see would be hearing issues after
> listening to the synthesizer for a long time.
> Cheers,
> Joseph
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Amanda Lacy <[hidden email]
> To: NVDA screen reader development
> <[hidden email]
> Date sent: Fri, 15 Aug 2014 12:34:37 -0500
> Subject: Re: [Nvda-devel] about health and NVDA voices
>
> Hmm.  Is it possible for speech synthesizers to emit
> seizure-inducing sounds?
> On 8/15/2014 12:18 PM, crisspro wrote:
> Hello every body.  I need information please.  I don't know if
> this
> information is trwe o false, but a friends show me a text.  says
> that
> some sintes voices like eloquence o speack, get problems to ear,
> because when people put so speed this voices then can get bigger
> problems.  the information says that diferents health
> organizations in
> the world tell about this problems, but i don't know if is trwe.  
> do
> you meet a investigation, a pappers or any formal information?.
>
> regards.
>
>
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> -------------
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Nvda-devel mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/nvda-devel
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> _______________________________________________
> Nvda-devel mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/nvda-devel


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Re: about health and NVDA voices

Amanda Lacy
I have a brain tumor. I'm telling you it's because of prolonged exposure
to JAWS for Windows. The rehab agencies don't want you to know!
On 8/15/2014 7:10 PM, Sarah k Alawami wrote:

> I to am very schectable. Sure tha tlistening for long periods can cause hearing los, I shoudl know, I have it, just like reading for a long time wiht out rest for the eyes will cause damage.  but yeah do you have a link to an article as, right now it sounds like a bunch of mush to me.
>
> There is no evidence that this can or  has hapepend in the past.  So until we flip, I want written proof this happens with evidence, stats, a controled experiment, etc etc etc.
> On Aug 15, 2014, at 10:55 AM, Joseph Lee <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>> I'm a bit skeptical.  Do you know where your friends got this
>> information, like the address for an article or from a doctor?
>> A possible complications I see would be hearing issues after
>> listening to the synthesizer for a long time.
>> Cheers,
>> Joseph
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Amanda Lacy <[hidden email]
>> To: NVDA screen reader development
>> <[hidden email]
>> Date sent: Fri, 15 Aug 2014 12:34:37 -0500
>> Subject: Re: [Nvda-devel] about health and NVDA voices
>>
>> Hmm.  Is it possible for speech synthesizers to emit
>> seizure-inducing sounds?
>> On 8/15/2014 12:18 PM, crisspro wrote:
>> Hello every body.  I need information please.  I don't know if
>> this
>> information is trwe o false, but a friends show me a text.  says
>> that
>> some sintes voices like eloquence o speack, get problems to ear,
>> because when people put so speed this voices then can get bigger
>> problems.  the information says that diferents health
>> organizations in
>> the world tell about this problems, but i don't know if is trwe.
>> do
>> you meet a investigation, a pappers or any formal information?.
>>
>> regards.
>>
>>
>>
>> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>> -------------
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Nvda-devel mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/nvda-devel
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> _______________________________________________
>> Nvda-devel mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/nvda-devel
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> _______________________________________________
> Nvda-devel mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/nvda-devel
>


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Re: about health and NVDA voices

Alex H.
LOL! :)

I've been using synthetic speech since 2000, and a variety of voices
and fast rates. Sure, I get a headache after a few hours of listening
to eSpeak at max rate, but who doesn't? I still do quite well in
hearing tests and happen to listen to that evil devil metal music at
very loud volumes at times, and no issues.

I try and listen to my TTS at a quiet volume wherever possible to
avoid any general long term effects caused by exposure to loud sounds,
or use a Braille display when one's available.

I wanna see a link. Pretty sure this is a bunch of whining, though.
Sure it's not that audio game they've been playing at max volume for
23 hours each day?

Alex

On 8/15/14, Amanda Lacy <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I have a brain tumor. I'm telling you it's because of prolonged exposure
> to JAWS for Windows. The rehab agencies don't want you to know!
> On 8/15/2014 7:10 PM, Sarah k Alawami wrote:
>> I to am very schectable. Sure tha tlistening for long periods can cause
>> hearing los, I shoudl know, I have it, just like reading for a long time
>> wiht out rest for the eyes will cause damage.  but yeah do you have a link
>> to an article as, right now it sounds like a bunch of mush to me.
>>
>> There is no evidence that this can or  has hapepend in the past.  So until
>> we flip, I want written proof this happens with evidence, stats, a
>> controled experiment, etc etc etc.
>> On Aug 15, 2014, at 10:55 AM, Joseph Lee <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>> I'm a bit skeptical.  Do you know where your friends got this
>>> information, like the address for an article or from a doctor?
>>> A possible complications I see would be hearing issues after
>>> listening to the synthesizer for a long time.
>>> Cheers,
>>> Joseph
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: Amanda Lacy <[hidden email]
>>> To: NVDA screen reader development
>>> <[hidden email]
>>> Date sent: Fri, 15 Aug 2014 12:34:37 -0500
>>> Subject: Re: [Nvda-devel] about health and NVDA voices
>>>
>>> Hmm.  Is it possible for speech synthesizers to emit
>>> seizure-inducing sounds?
>>> On 8/15/2014 12:18 PM, crisspro wrote:
>>> Hello every body.  I need information please.  I don't know if
>>> this
>>> information is trwe o false, but a friends show me a text.  says
>>> that
>>> some sintes voices like eloquence o speack, get problems to ear,
>>> because when people put so speed this voices then can get bigger
>>> problems.  the information says that diferents health
>>> organizations in
>>> the world tell about this problems, but i don't know if is trwe.
>>> do
>>> you meet a investigation, a pappers or any formal information?.
>>>
>>> regards.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>>> -------------
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Nvda-devel mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/nvda-devel
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Nvda-devel mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/nvda-devel
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> _______________________________________________
>> Nvda-devel mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/nvda-devel
>>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> _______________________________________________
> Nvda-devel mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/nvda-devel
>

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Re: about health and NVDA voices

mr. Chikodinaka Oguledo
what is NVDA deveal?

On 8/15/14, Alex H. <[hidden email]> wrote:

> LOL! :)
>
> I've been using synthetic speech since 2000, and a variety of voices
> and fast rates. Sure, I get a headache after a few hours of listening
> to eSpeak at max rate, but who doesn't? I still do quite well in
> hearing tests and happen to listen to that evil devil metal music at
> very loud volumes at times, and no issues.
>
> I try and listen to my TTS at a quiet volume wherever possible to
> avoid any general long term effects caused by exposure to loud sounds,
> or use a Braille display when one's available.
>
> I wanna see a link. Pretty sure this is a bunch of whining, though.
> Sure it's not that audio game they've been playing at max volume for
> 23 hours each day?
>
> Alex
>
> On 8/15/14, Amanda Lacy <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> I have a brain tumor. I'm telling you it's because of prolonged exposure
>> to JAWS for Windows. The rehab agencies don't want you to know!
>> On 8/15/2014 7:10 PM, Sarah k Alawami wrote:
>>> I to am very schectable. Sure tha tlistening for long periods can cause
>>> hearing los, I shoudl know, I have it, just like reading for a long time
>>> wiht out rest for the eyes will cause damage.  but yeah do you have a
>>> link
>>> to an article as, right now it sounds like a bunch of mush to me.
>>>
>>> There is no evidence that this can or  has hapepend in the past.  So
>>> until
>>> we flip, I want written proof this happens with evidence, stats, a
>>> controled experiment, etc etc etc.
>>> On Aug 15, 2014, at 10:55 AM, Joseph Lee <[hidden email]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>> I'm a bit skeptical.  Do you know where your friends got this
>>>> information, like the address for an article or from a doctor?
>>>> A possible complications I see would be hearing issues after
>>>> listening to the synthesizer for a long time.
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Joseph
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: Amanda Lacy <[hidden email]
>>>> To: NVDA screen reader development
>>>> <[hidden email]
>>>> Date sent: Fri, 15 Aug 2014 12:34:37 -0500
>>>> Subject: Re: [Nvda-devel] about health and NVDA voices
>>>>
>>>> Hmm.  Is it possible for speech synthesizers to emit
>>>> seizure-inducing sounds?
>>>> On 8/15/2014 12:18 PM, crisspro wrote:
>>>> Hello every body.  I need information please.  I don't know if
>>>> this
>>>> information is trwe o false, but a friends show me a text.  says
>>>> that
>>>> some sintes voices like eloquence o speack, get problems to ear,
>>>> because when people put so speed this voices then can get bigger
>>>> problems.  the information says that diferents health
>>>> organizations in
>>>> the world tell about this problems, but i don't know if is trwe.
>>>> do
>>>> you meet a investigation, a pappers or any formal information?.
>>>>
>>>> regards.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> -------------
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Nvda-devel mailing list
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/nvda-devel
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Nvda-devel mailing list
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/nvda-devel
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Nvda-devel mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/nvda-devel
>>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> _______________________________________________
>> Nvda-devel mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/nvda-devel
>>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> _______________________________________________
> Nvda-devel mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/nvda-devel
>


--
n f b. live? more jist in a moment ,If you Can see it beeleeve it then
you can acheve it! Don't Stop Bleeveeing Hold on to that fealing a
song broght to by Jerny!  in the words of Jacky Gails Webb On Sunday
Afternoon Gosple 12:00p.m to. 3:00p.m!on 96.3 fm WHUR Sounds like
Washington. The Adult Mix!May the grace of god Save you. May the will
of god guide you. & may the love of god shine throu you. bee blest! if
 you trye and don't suckseed. try try try Agan. for if you persivear.
you will konker Never fear. try try try Agan

now the national federation of the blind(NFB)can now talk live
introduseing www.nfblive.org Now fello federationists can talk
247-365. HTTP://www.NFBlive.org try it out it is free to get a
account. all you need is a pc&amike and a computer soundcardagan the u
r l iswww.nfblive.org!

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Re: about health and NVDA voices

Brendon Charles Donohue
The  development of new versions of NVDA. What do you want to know about it?

Thank you.

Brendon Donohue.


-----Original Message-----
From: mr. Chikodinaka Oguledo [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2014 1:27 PM
To: NVDA screen reader development
Subject: Re: [Nvda-devel] about health and NVDA voices

what is NVDA deveal?

On 8/15/14, Alex H. <[hidden email]> wrote:

> LOL! :)
>
> I've been using synthetic speech since 2000, and a variety of voices
> and fast rates. Sure, I get a headache after a few hours of listening
> to eSpeak at max rate, but who doesn't? I still do quite well in
> hearing tests and happen to listen to that evil devil metal music at
> very loud volumes at times, and no issues.
>
> I try and listen to my TTS at a quiet volume wherever possible to
> avoid any general long term effects caused by exposure to loud sounds,
> or use a Braille display when one's available.
>
> I wanna see a link. Pretty sure this is a bunch of whining, though.
> Sure it's not that audio game they've been playing at max volume for
> 23 hours each day?
>
> Alex
>
> On 8/15/14, Amanda Lacy <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> I have a brain tumor. I'm telling you it's because of prolonged exposure
>> to JAWS for Windows. The rehab agencies don't want you to know!
>> On 8/15/2014 7:10 PM, Sarah k Alawami wrote:
>>> I to am very schectable. Sure tha tlistening for long periods can cause
>>> hearing los, I shoudl know, I have it, just like reading for a long time
>>> wiht out rest for the eyes will cause damage.  but yeah do you have a
>>> link
>>> to an article as, right now it sounds like a bunch of mush to me.
>>>
>>> There is no evidence that this can or  has hapepend in the past.  So
>>> until
>>> we flip, I want written proof this happens with evidence, stats, a
>>> controled experiment, etc etc etc.
>>> On Aug 15, 2014, at 10:55 AM, Joseph Lee <[hidden email]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>> I'm a bit skeptical.  Do you know where your friends got this
>>>> information, like the address for an article or from a doctor?
>>>> A possible complications I see would be hearing issues after
>>>> listening to the synthesizer for a long time.
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Joseph
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: Amanda Lacy <[hidden email]
>>>> To: NVDA screen reader development
>>>> <[hidden email]
>>>> Date sent: Fri, 15 Aug 2014 12:34:37 -0500
>>>> Subject: Re: [Nvda-devel] about health and NVDA voices
>>>>
>>>> Hmm.  Is it possible for speech synthesizers to emit
>>>> seizure-inducing sounds?
>>>> On 8/15/2014 12:18 PM, crisspro wrote:
>>>> Hello every body.  I need information please.  I don't know if
>>>> this
>>>> information is trwe o false, but a friends show me a text.  says
>>>> that
>>>> some sintes voices like eloquence o speack, get problems to ear,
>>>> because when people put so speed this voices then can get bigger
>>>> problems.  the information says that diferents health
>>>> organizations in
>>>> the world tell about this problems, but i don't know if is trwe.
>>>> do
>>>> you meet a investigation, a pappers or any formal information?.
>>>>
>>>> regards.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> -------------
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Nvda-devel mailing list
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/nvda-devel
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Nvda-devel mailing list
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/nvda-devel
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Nvda-devel mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/nvda-devel
>>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> _______________________________________________
>> Nvda-devel mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/nvda-devel
>>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> _______________________________________________
> Nvda-devel mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/nvda-devel
>


--
n f b. live? more jist in a moment ,If you Can see it beeleeve it then
you can acheve it! Don't Stop Bleeveeing Hold on to that fealing a
song broght to by Jerny!  in the words of Jacky Gails Webb On Sunday
Afternoon Gosple 12:00p.m to. 3:00p.m!on 96.3 fm WHUR Sounds like
Washington. The Adult Mix!May the grace of god Save you. May the will
of god guide you. & may the love of god shine throu you. bee blest! if
 you trye and don't suckseed. try try try Agan. for if you persivear.
you will konker Never fear. try try try Agan

now the national federation of the blind(NFB)can now talk live
introduseing www.nfblive.org Now fello federationists can talk
247-365. HTTP://www.NFBlive.org try it out it is free to get a
account. all you need is a pc&amike and a computer soundcardagan the u
r l iswww.nfblive.org!

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Re: about health and NVDA voices

Drew Mochak
On 8/15/2014 12:18 PM, crisspro wrote: I don't know if this information
is trwe o false, but a friends show me a text. says that


I'mma gonna stop you right there. It's false and your friend is full of it.

There. Thread over!


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Re: about health and NVDA voices

Brian Gaff Lineone downstairs
In reply to this post by criss
Well, any sound can be dangerous if you listen to it loud enough.
I also  understand that in young children listening to artificial sounding
voices can make it harder to understand real ones, but luckily we are now
getting more and more voices that sound real, so I'd expect this effect to
be much lower nowadays.
 One thing that worries me a little are waveforms. A lot of artificial
sounding voices use  very jagged waveforms that can have high peaks, which,
presumably if listened to on headphones at an advanced level could lead to
damage.

These effects are  not new though and I'd have thought it was common
knowledge.
Is there some other danger that you are  aware of outside of these concerns?
 Brian

[hidden email]
Brian Gaff's other account.

----- Original Message -----
From: "crisspro" <[hidden email]>
To: "NVDA screen reader development" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Friday, August 15, 2014 6:18 PM
Subject: [Nvda-devel] about health and NVDA voices


Hello every body. I need information please. I don’t know if this
information is trwe o false, but a friends show me a text. says that some
sintes voices like eloquence o speack, get problems to ear, because when
people put so speed this voices then can get bigger problems. the
information says that diferents health organizations in the world tell about
this problems, but i don’t know if is trwe. do you meet a investigation, a
pappers or any formal information?.

regards.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


> _______________________________________________
> Nvda-devel mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/nvda-devel
>


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Re: about health and NVDA voices

Brian Gaff Lineone downstairs
In reply to this post by Amanda Lacy
Some singers might be almost in that category!
 To be fair, in certain people  one can induce  these in different ways. If
a person is what one considers normal, then I'd very much doubt it is going
to happen.

Brian

[hidden email]
Brian Gaff's other account.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Amanda Lacy" <[hidden email]>
To: "NVDA screen reader development" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Friday, August 15, 2014 6:34 PM
Subject: Re: [Nvda-devel] about health and NVDA voices


> Hmm. Is it possible for speech synthesizers to emit seizure-inducing
> sounds?
> On 8/15/2014 12:18 PM, crisspro wrote:
>> Hello every body. I need information please. I don't know if this
>> information is trwe o false, but a friends show me a text. says that
>> some sintes voices like eloquence o speack, get problems to ear,
>> because when people put so speed this voices then can get bigger
>> problems. the information says that diferents health organizations in
>> the world tell about this problems, but i don't know if is trwe. do
>> you meet a investigation, a pappers or any formal information?.
>>
>> regards.
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Nvda-devel mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/nvda-devel
>
>


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


> _______________________________________________
> Nvda-devel mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/nvda-devel
>


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Re: about health and NVDA voices

Brian Gaff Lineone downstairs
In reply to this post by Amanda Lacy
No I doubt very much this is the sole cause. There are many other reasons I
can think of other than a strange sounding voice.
 I mentioned in a previous reply that there are some dangers, but I'd
suspect there is no more hard evidence on sounds causing Tumas than there is
of mobile phones cooking the brain.
 Probably not the place to have this discussion, but the world does have all
sorts of dangers and artificial voices is not up there with the big ones.
Lets wait for authoritive answers.
 Brian

[hidden email]
Brian Gaff's other account.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Amanda Lacy" <[hidden email]>
To: "NVDA screen reader development" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2014 1:20 AM
Subject: Re: [Nvda-devel] about health and NVDA voices


>I have a brain tumor. I'm telling you it's because of prolonged exposure
> to JAWS for Windows. The rehab agencies don't want you to know!
> On 8/15/2014 7:10 PM, Sarah k Alawami wrote:
>> I to am very schectable. Sure tha tlistening for long periods can cause
>> hearing los, I shoudl know, I have it, just like reading for a long time
>> wiht out rest for the eyes will cause damage.  but yeah do you have a
>> link to an article as, right now it sounds like a bunch of mush to me.
>>
>> There is no evidence that this can or  has hapepend in the past.  So
>> until we flip, I want written proof this happens with evidence, stats, a
>> controled experiment, etc etc etc.
>> On Aug 15, 2014, at 10:55 AM, Joseph Lee <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>> I'm a bit skeptical.  Do you know where your friends got this
>>> information, like the address for an article or from a doctor?
>>> A possible complications I see would be hearing issues after
>>> listening to the synthesizer for a long time.
>>> Cheers,
>>> Joseph
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: Amanda Lacy <[hidden email]
>>> To: NVDA screen reader development
>>> <[hidden email]
>>> Date sent: Fri, 15 Aug 2014 12:34:37 -0500
>>> Subject: Re: [Nvda-devel] about health and NVDA voices
>>>
>>> Hmm.  Is it possible for speech synthesizers to emit
>>> seizure-inducing sounds?
>>> On 8/15/2014 12:18 PM, crisspro wrote:
>>> Hello every body.  I need information please.  I don't know if
>>> this
>>> information is trwe o false, but a friends show me a text.  says
>>> that
>>> some sintes voices like eloquence o speack, get problems to ear,
>>> because when people put so speed this voices then can get bigger
>>> problems.  the information says that diferents health
>>> organizations in
>>> the world tell about this problems, but i don't know if is trwe.
>>> do
>>> you meet a investigation, a pappers or any formal information?.
>>>
>>> regards.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>>> -------------
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Nvda-devel mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/nvda-devel
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Nvda-devel mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/nvda-devel
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> _______________________________________________
>> Nvda-devel mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/nvda-devel
>>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> _______________________________________________
> Nvda-devel mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/nvda-devel 


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Re: about health and NVDA voices

Brian Gaff Lineone downstairs
In reply to this post by mr. Chikodinaka Oguledo
nvda devel for the hard of hearing? grin

 sorry. back to the tetchy stuff.
 Brian

[hidden email]
Brian Gaff's other account.

----- Original Message -----
From: "mr. Chikodinaka Oguledo" <[hidden email]>
To: "NVDA screen reader development" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2014 4:26 AM
Subject: Re: [Nvda-devel] about health and NVDA voices


> what is NVDA deveal?
>
> On 8/15/14, Alex H. <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> LOL! :)
>>
>> I've been using synthetic speech since 2000, and a variety of voices
>> and fast rates. Sure, I get a headache after a few hours of listening
>> to eSpeak at max rate, but who doesn't? I still do quite well in
>> hearing tests and happen to listen to that evil devil metal music at
>> very loud volumes at times, and no issues.
>>
>> I try and listen to my TTS at a quiet volume wherever possible to
>> avoid any general long term effects caused by exposure to loud sounds,
>> or use a Braille display when one's available.
>>
>> I wanna see a link. Pretty sure this is a bunch of whining, though.
>> Sure it's not that audio game they've been playing at max volume for
>> 23 hours each day?
>>
>> Alex
>>
>> On 8/15/14, Amanda Lacy <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> I have a brain tumor. I'm telling you it's because of prolonged exposure
>>> to JAWS for Windows. The rehab agencies don't want you to know!
>>> On 8/15/2014 7:10 PM, Sarah k Alawami wrote:
>>>> I to am very schectable. Sure tha tlistening for long periods can cause
>>>> hearing los, I shoudl know, I have it, just like reading for a long
>>>> time
>>>> wiht out rest for the eyes will cause damage.  but yeah do you have a
>>>> link
>>>> to an article as, right now it sounds like a bunch of mush to me.
>>>>
>>>> There is no evidence that this can or  has hapepend in the past.  So
>>>> until
>>>> we flip, I want written proof this happens with evidence, stats, a
>>>> controled experiment, etc etc etc.
>>>> On Aug 15, 2014, at 10:55 AM, Joseph Lee <[hidden email]>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>> I'm a bit skeptical.  Do you know where your friends got this
>>>>> information, like the address for an article or from a doctor?
>>>>> A possible complications I see would be hearing issues after
>>>>> listening to the synthesizer for a long time.
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>> Joseph
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: Amanda Lacy <[hidden email]
>>>>> To: NVDA screen reader development
>>>>> <[hidden email]
>>>>> Date sent: Fri, 15 Aug 2014 12:34:37 -0500
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Nvda-devel] about health and NVDA voices
>>>>>
>>>>> Hmm.  Is it possible for speech synthesizers to emit
>>>>> seizure-inducing sounds?
>>>>> On 8/15/2014 12:18 PM, crisspro wrote:
>>>>> Hello every body.  I need information please.  I don't know if
>>>>> this
>>>>> information is trwe o false, but a friends show me a text.  says
>>>>> that
>>>>> some sintes voices like eloquence o speack, get problems to ear,
>>>>> because when people put so speed this voices then can get bigger
>>>>> problems.  the information says that diferents health
>>>>> organizations in
>>>>> the world tell about this problems, but i don't know if is trwe.
>>>>> do
>>>>> you meet a investigation, a pappers or any formal information?.
>>>>>
>>>>> regards.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> -------------
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Nvda-devel mailing list
>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/nvda-devel
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Nvda-devel mailing list
>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/nvda-devel
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Nvda-devel mailing list
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/nvda-devel
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Nvda-devel mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/nvda-devel
>>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> _______________________________________________
>> Nvda-devel mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/nvda-devel
>>
>
>
> --
> n f b. live? more jist in a moment ,If you Can see it beeleeve it then
> you can acheve it! Don't Stop Bleeveeing Hold on to that fealing a
> song broght to by Jerny!  in the words of Jacky Gails Webb On Sunday
> Afternoon Gosple 12:00p.m to. 3:00p.m!on 96.3 fm WHUR Sounds like
> Washington. The Adult Mix!May the grace of god Save you. May the will
> of god guide you. & may the love of god shine throu you. bee blest! if
> you trye and don't suckseed. try try try Agan. for if you persivear.
> you will konker Never fear. try try try Agan
>
> now the national federation of the blind(NFB)can now talk live
> introduseing www.nfblive.org Now fello federationists can talk
> 247-365. HTTP://www.NFBlive.org try it out it is free to get a
> account. all you need is a pc&amike and a computer soundcardagan the u
> r l iswww.nfblive.org!
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: about health and NVDA voices

Michael A Ray
In reply to this post by Brendon Charles Donohue

This sounds a bit like the reasons drug manufacturers list so many
possible side-effects on medication packaging.  If one person in a
million lost all their teeth when they swallowed one pill then that goes
on the list.

So, if one person in a million gets a tumour, or hearing damage, and
they just happen to have been listening to a speech synthesiser for a
number of years, some will blame it on the synth.

No account for the fact they have also been breathing pollution for
decades, living near electricity pylons since they were born, drinking
soft-drinks laced with Aspartame like water, or smoking sixty a day for
forty years.

I suspect there is nothing but circumstantial evidence to support any
claim that espeak or Jaws cause anything more than fatigue.

What we do know is that prolonged exposure to sound above a certain
level damages hearing.  But that's the same whether it's espeak or a
duck quacking in your ear.

We are living in an increasingly litigious world.  Manufacturers have to
be over-cautious about warnings, and users are all too ready to make
outlandish claims because they have dollar signs in their eyes.

Mike



On 16/08/2014 04:29, Brendon Donohue wrote:

> The  development of new versions of NVDA. What do you want to know about it?
>
> Thank you.
>
> Brendon Donohue.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: mr. Chikodinaka Oguledo [mailto:[hidden email]]
> Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2014 1:27 PM
> To: NVDA screen reader development
> Subject: Re: [Nvda-devel] about health and NVDA voices
>
> what is NVDA deveal?
>
> On 8/15/14, Alex H. <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> LOL! :)
>>
>> I've been using synthetic speech since 2000, and a variety of voices
>> and fast rates. Sure, I get a headache after a few hours of listening
>> to eSpeak at max rate, but who doesn't? I still do quite well in
>> hearing tests and happen to listen to that evil devil metal music at
>> very loud volumes at times, and no issues.
>>
>> I try and listen to my TTS at a quiet volume wherever possible to
>> avoid any general long term effects caused by exposure to loud sounds,
>> or use a Braille display when one's available.
>>
>> I wanna see a link. Pretty sure this is a bunch of whining, though.
>> Sure it's not that audio game they've been playing at max volume for
>> 23 hours each day?
>>
>> Alex
>>
>> On 8/15/14, Amanda Lacy <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> I have a brain tumor. I'm telling you it's because of prolonged exposure
>>> to JAWS for Windows. The rehab agencies don't want you to know!
>>> On 8/15/2014 7:10 PM, Sarah k Alawami wrote:
>>>> I to am very schectable. Sure tha tlistening for long periods can cause
>>>> hearing los, I shoudl know, I have it, just like reading for a long time
>>>> wiht out rest for the eyes will cause damage.  but yeah do you have a
>>>> link
>>>> to an article as, right now it sounds like a bunch of mush to me.
>>>>
>>>> There is no evidence that this can or  has hapepend in the past.  So
>>>> until
>>>> we flip, I want written proof this happens with evidence, stats, a
>>>> controled experiment, etc etc etc.
>>>> On Aug 15, 2014, at 10:55 AM, Joseph Lee <[hidden email]>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>> I'm a bit skeptical.  Do you know where your friends got this
>>>>> information, like the address for an article or from a doctor?
>>>>> A possible complications I see would be hearing issues after
>>>>> listening to the synthesizer for a long time.
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>> Joseph
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: Amanda Lacy <[hidden email]
>>>>> To: NVDA screen reader development
>>>>> <[hidden email]
>>>>> Date sent: Fri, 15 Aug 2014 12:34:37 -0500
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Nvda-devel] about health and NVDA voices
>>>>>
>>>>> Hmm.  Is it possible for speech synthesizers to emit
>>>>> seizure-inducing sounds?
>>>>> On 8/15/2014 12:18 PM, crisspro wrote:
>>>>> Hello every body.  I need information please.  I don't know if
>>>>> this
>>>>> information is trwe o false, but a friends show me a text.  says
>>>>> that
>>>>> some sintes voices like eloquence o speack, get problems to ear,
>>>>> because when people put so speed this voices then can get bigger
>>>>> problems.  the information says that diferents health
>>>>> organizations in
>>>>> the world tell about this problems, but i don't know if is trwe.
>>>>> do
>>>>> you meet a investigation, a pappers or any formal information?.
>>>>>
>>>>> regards.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> -------------
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Nvda-devel mailing list
>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/nvda-devel
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Nvda-devel mailing list
>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/nvda-devel
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Nvda-devel mailing list
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/nvda-devel
>>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Nvda-devel mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/nvda-devel
>>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> _______________________________________________
>> Nvda-devel mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/nvda-devel
>>
>


--
Michael A. Ray
Analyst/Programmer
Witley, Surrey, South-east UK

Ham Radio Call-sign: G4XBF, licensed since 1982

The box said: 'install Windows XP, 7 or better'. So I installed Linux

Raspberry VI:
http://www.raspberryvi.org/
NVDA, the best free screen-reader in the world:
http://www.nvda-project.org/




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Re: about health and NVDA voices

Amanda Lacy
In reply to this post by Brian Gaff Lineone downstairs
I really hope you and Michael Array didn't take my last message seriously.
On 8/16/2014 1:58 AM, Brian Gaff Lineone downstairs wrote:

> No I doubt very much this is the sole cause. There are many other reasons I
> can think of other than a strange sounding voice.
>   I mentioned in a previous reply that there are some dangers, but I'd
> suspect there is no more hard evidence on sounds causing Tumas than there is
> of mobile phones cooking the brain.
>   Probably not the place to have this discussion, but the world does have all
> sorts of dangers and artificial voices is not up there with the big ones.
> Lets wait for authoritive answers.
>   Brian
>
> [hidden email]
> Brian Gaff's other account.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Amanda Lacy" <[hidden email]>
> To: "NVDA screen reader development" <[hidden email]>
> Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2014 1:20 AM
> Subject: Re: [Nvda-devel] about health and NVDA voices
>
>
>> I have a brain tumor. I'm telling you it's because of prolonged exposure
>> to JAWS for Windows. The rehab agencies don't want you to know!
>> On 8/15/2014 7:10 PM, Sarah k Alawami wrote:
>>> I to am very schectable. Sure tha tlistening for long periods can cause
>>> hearing los, I shoudl know, I have it, just like reading for a long time
>>> wiht out rest for the eyes will cause damage.  but yeah do you have a
>>> link to an article as, right now it sounds like a bunch of mush to me.
>>>
>>> There is no evidence that this can or  has hapepend in the past.  So
>>> until we flip, I want written proof this happens with evidence, stats, a
>>> controled experiment, etc etc etc.
>>> On Aug 15, 2014, at 10:55 AM, Joseph Lee <[hidden email]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>> I'm a bit skeptical.  Do you know where your friends got this
>>>> information, like the address for an article or from a doctor?
>>>> A possible complications I see would be hearing issues after
>>>> listening to the synthesizer for a long time.
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Joseph
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: Amanda Lacy <[hidden email]
>>>> To: NVDA screen reader development
>>>> <[hidden email]
>>>> Date sent: Fri, 15 Aug 2014 12:34:37 -0500
>>>> Subject: Re: [Nvda-devel] about health and NVDA voices
>>>>
>>>> Hmm.  Is it possible for speech synthesizers to emit
>>>> seizure-inducing sounds?
>>>> On 8/15/2014 12:18 PM, crisspro wrote:
>>>> Hello every body.  I need information please.  I don't know if
>>>> this
>>>> information is trwe o false, but a friends show me a text.  says
>>>> that
>>>> some sintes voices like eloquence o speack, get problems to ear,
>>>> because when people put so speed this voices then can get bigger
>>>> problems.  the information says that diferents health
>>>> organizations in
>>>> the world tell about this problems, but i don't know if is trwe.
>>>> do
>>>> you meet a investigation, a pappers or any formal information?.
>>>>
>>>> regards.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> -------------
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Nvda-devel mailing list
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/nvda-devel
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Nvda-devel mailing list
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/nvda-devel
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Nvda-devel mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/nvda-devel
>>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> _______________________________________________
>> Nvda-devel mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/nvda-devel
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> _______________________________________________
> Nvda-devel mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/nvda-devel
>


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Re: about health and NVDA voices

criss
In reply to this post by Michael A Ray
hello. well, a rison is for waves morph when is irregular, taht is in the
text. you know there is a test to ear. the human have to listen a sound
frecuensy in the life. if you are:

0 - 8 years old you have to listen   between 20000 - 19500 Hz.
9 - 18 years old. you have to listen between 19500 - 18000 Hz.
18 - 25 years old. you have to listen between 18000 - 17000 hz.
25 - 35 years old. you have to listen between 17000 - 16000 hz.
35 - 45 years old. you have to listen between 16000 - 15000 hz.
45 - 60 years old. you have to listen between 15000 - 13500 hz
etc...

if you want to listen this sounds, go to:

http://onlinetonegenerator.com/

you have o change the number 440 and put the numer to your category, next
press play to listen and stop buton to finich. you have to use firefox or
google chrome, don't working with internet explorer.

regards.



-----Mensaje original-----
From: Michael A Ray
Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2014 8:56 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Nvda-devel] about health and NVDA voices


This sounds a bit like the reasons drug manufacturers list so many
possible side-effects on medication packaging.  If one person in a
million lost all their teeth when they swallowed one pill then that goes
on the list.

So, if one person in a million gets a tumour, or hearing damage, and
they just happen to have been listening to a speech synthesiser for a
number of years, some will blame it on the synth.

No account for the fact they have also been breathing pollution for
decades, living near electricity pylons since they were born, drinking
soft-drinks laced with Aspartame like water, or smoking sixty a day for
forty years.

I suspect there is nothing but circumstantial evidence to support any
claim that espeak or Jaws cause anything more than fatigue.

What we do know is that prolonged exposure to sound above a certain
level damages hearing.  But that's the same whether it's espeak or a
duck quacking in your ear.

We are living in an increasingly litigious world.  Manufacturers have to
be over-cautious about warnings, and users are all too ready to make
outlandish claims because they have dollar signs in their eyes.

Mike



On 16/08/2014 04:29, Brendon Donohue wrote:

> The  development of new versions of NVDA. What do you want to know about
> it?
>
> Thank you.
>
> Brendon Donohue.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: mr. Chikodinaka Oguledo [mailto:[hidden email]]
> Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2014 1:27 PM
> To: NVDA screen reader development
> Subject: Re: [Nvda-devel] about health and NVDA voices
>
> what is NVDA deveal?
>
> On 8/15/14, Alex H. <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> LOL! :)
>>
>> I've been using synthetic speech since 2000, and a variety of voices
>> and fast rates. Sure, I get a headache after a few hours of listening
>> to eSpeak at max rate, but who doesn't? I still do quite well in
>> hearing tests and happen to listen to that evil devil metal music at
>> very loud volumes at times, and no issues.
>>
>> I try and listen to my TTS at a quiet volume wherever possible to
>> avoid any general long term effects caused by exposure to loud sounds,
>> or use a Braille display when one's available.
>>
>> I wanna see a link. Pretty sure this is a bunch of whining, though.
>> Sure it's not that audio game they've been playing at max volume for
>> 23 hours each day?
>>
>> Alex
>>
>> On 8/15/14, Amanda Lacy <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> I have a brain tumor. I'm telling you it's because of prolonged exposure
>>> to JAWS for Windows. The rehab agencies don't want you to know!
>>> On 8/15/2014 7:10 PM, Sarah k Alawami wrote:
>>>> I to am very schectable. Sure tha tlistening for long periods can cause
>>>> hearing los, I shoudl know, I have it, just like reading for a long
>>>> time
>>>> wiht out rest for the eyes will cause damage.  but yeah do you have a
>>>> link
>>>> to an article as, right now it sounds like a bunch of mush to me.
>>>>
>>>> There is no evidence that this can or  has hapepend in the past.  So
>>>> until
>>>> we flip, I want written proof this happens with evidence, stats, a
>>>> controled experiment, etc etc etc.
>>>> On Aug 15, 2014, at 10:55 AM, Joseph Lee <[hidden email]>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>> I'm a bit skeptical.  Do you know where your friends got this
>>>>> information, like the address for an article or from a doctor?
>>>>> A possible complications I see would be hearing issues after
>>>>> listening to the synthesizer for a long time.
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>> Joseph
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: Amanda Lacy <[hidden email]
>>>>> To: NVDA screen reader development
>>>>> <[hidden email]
>>>>> Date sent: Fri, 15 Aug 2014 12:34:37 -0500
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Nvda-devel] about health and NVDA voices
>>>>>
>>>>> Hmm.  Is it possible for speech synthesizers to emit
>>>>> seizure-inducing sounds?
>>>>> On 8/15/2014 12:18 PM, crisspro wrote:
>>>>> Hello every body.  I need information please.  I don't know if
>>>>> this
>>>>> information is trwe o false, but a friends show me a text.  says
>>>>> that
>>>>> some sintes voices like eloquence o speack, get problems to ear,
>>>>> because when people put so speed this voices then can get bigger
>>>>> problems.  the information says that diferents health
>>>>> organizations in
>>>>> the world tell about this problems, but i don't know if is trwe.
>>>>> do
>>>>> you meet a investigation, a pappers or any formal information?.
>>>>>
>>>>> regards.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> -------------
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Nvda-devel mailing list
>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/nvda-devel
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Nvda-devel mailing list
>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/nvda-devel
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Nvda-devel mailing list
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/nvda-devel
>>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Nvda-devel mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/nvda-devel
>>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> _______________________________________________
>> Nvda-devel mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/nvda-devel
>>
>


--
Michael A. Ray
Analyst/Programmer
Witley, Surrey, South-east UK

Ham Radio Call-sign: G4XBF, licensed since 1982

The box said: 'install Windows XP, 7 or better'. So I installed Linux

Raspberry VI:
http://www.raspberryvi.org/
NVDA, the best free screen-reader in the world:
http://www.nvda-project.org/




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Re: about health and NVDA voices

Joseph Lee
Hi,
I think we're talking about two different threads here: the original post
claims that the poster's friend mentioned an article saying that prolonged
exposure to synthetic speech causes hearing issues (which depends on speech
volume, duration, etc.), and now the below post refers to audible
frequencies, which are two different things. Personally, what I'd like to
know is where this article is so we can verify what your friend claims, and
without that, I think we should put this to rest. So I'd like to kindly ask:
could you ask your friend where this info comes from? As for claims of
hearing issues as a result of prolonged exposure to synthetic speech, I'll
not go there as there are numerous factors which influences this (one advice
I'd give: take frequent rests; this is more so if you're working on
something and need to use speech synthesizers, especially in environments
such as reading, coding, web browsing, etc.).
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: crisspro [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2014 9:44 AM
To: NVDA screen reader development
Subject: Re: [Nvda-devel] about health and NVDA voices

hello. well, a rison is for waves morph when is irregular, taht is in the
text. you know there is a test to ear. the human have to listen a sound
frecuensy in the life. if you are:

0 - 8 years old you have to listen   between 20000 - 19500 Hz.
9 - 18 years old. you have to listen between 19500 - 18000 Hz.
18 - 25 years old. you have to listen between 18000 - 17000 hz.
25 - 35 years old. you have to listen between 17000 - 16000 hz.
35 - 45 years old. you have to listen between 16000 - 15000 hz.
45 - 60 years old. you have to listen between 15000 - 13500 hz etc...

if you want to listen this sounds, go to:

http://onlinetonegenerator.com/

you have o change the number 440 and put the numer to your category, next
press play to listen and stop buton to finich. you have to use firefox or
google chrome, don't working with internet explorer.

regards.



-----Mensaje original-----
From: Michael A Ray
Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2014 8:56 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Nvda-devel] about health and NVDA voices


This sounds a bit like the reasons drug manufacturers list so many
possible side-effects on medication packaging.  If one person in a
million lost all their teeth when they swallowed one pill then that goes
on the list.

So, if one person in a million gets a tumour, or hearing damage, and
they just happen to have been listening to a speech synthesiser for a
number of years, some will blame it on the synth.

No account for the fact they have also been breathing pollution for
decades, living near electricity pylons since they were born, drinking
soft-drinks laced with Aspartame like water, or smoking sixty a day for
forty years.

I suspect there is nothing but circumstantial evidence to support any
claim that espeak or Jaws cause anything more than fatigue.

What we do know is that prolonged exposure to sound above a certain
level damages hearing.  But that's the same whether it's espeak or a
duck quacking in your ear.

We are living in an increasingly litigious world.  Manufacturers have to
be over-cautious about warnings, and users are all too ready to make
outlandish claims because they have dollar signs in their eyes.

Mike



On 16/08/2014 04:29, Brendon Donohue wrote:

> The  development of new versions of NVDA. What do you want to know about
> it?
>
> Thank you.
>
> Brendon Donohue.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: mr. Chikodinaka Oguledo [mailto:[hidden email]]
> Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2014 1:27 PM
> To: NVDA screen reader development
> Subject: Re: [Nvda-devel] about health and NVDA voices
>
> what is NVDA deveal?
>
> On 8/15/14, Alex H. <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> LOL! :)
>>
>> I've been using synthetic speech since 2000, and a variety of voices
>> and fast rates. Sure, I get a headache after a few hours of listening
>> to eSpeak at max rate, but who doesn't? I still do quite well in
>> hearing tests and happen to listen to that evil devil metal music at
>> very loud volumes at times, and no issues.
>>
>> I try and listen to my TTS at a quiet volume wherever possible to
>> avoid any general long term effects caused by exposure to loud sounds,
>> or use a Braille display when one's available.
>>
>> I wanna see a link. Pretty sure this is a bunch of whining, though.
>> Sure it's not that audio game they've been playing at max volume for
>> 23 hours each day?
>>
>> Alex
>>
>> On 8/15/14, Amanda Lacy <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> I have a brain tumor. I'm telling you it's because of prolonged exposure
>>> to JAWS for Windows. The rehab agencies don't want you to know!
>>> On 8/15/2014 7:10 PM, Sarah k Alawami wrote:
>>>> I to am very schectable. Sure tha tlistening for long periods can cause
>>>> hearing los, I shoudl know, I have it, just like reading for a long
>>>> time
>>>> wiht out rest for the eyes will cause damage.  but yeah do you have a
>>>> link
>>>> to an article as, right now it sounds like a bunch of mush to me.
>>>>
>>>> There is no evidence that this can or  has hapepend in the past.  So
>>>> until
>>>> we flip, I want written proof this happens with evidence, stats, a
>>>> controled experiment, etc etc etc.
>>>> On Aug 15, 2014, at 10:55 AM, Joseph Lee <[hidden email]>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>> I'm a bit skeptical.  Do you know where your friends got this
>>>>> information, like the address for an article or from a doctor?
>>>>> A possible complications I see would be hearing issues after
>>>>> listening to the synthesizer for a long time.
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>> Joseph
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: Amanda Lacy <[hidden email]
>>>>> To: NVDA screen reader development
>>>>> <[hidden email]
>>>>> Date sent: Fri, 15 Aug 2014 12:34:37 -0500
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Nvda-devel] about health and NVDA voices
>>>>>
>>>>> Hmm.  Is it possible for speech synthesizers to emit
>>>>> seizure-inducing sounds?
>>>>> On 8/15/2014 12:18 PM, crisspro wrote:
>>>>> Hello every body.  I need information please.  I don't know if
>>>>> this
>>>>> information is trwe o false, but a friends show me a text.  says
>>>>> that
>>>>> some sintes voices like eloquence o speack, get problems to ear,
>>>>> because when people put so speed this voices then can get bigger
>>>>> problems.  the information says that diferents health
>>>>> organizations in
>>>>> the world tell about this problems, but i don't know if is trwe.
>>>>> do
>>>>> you meet a investigation, a pappers or any formal information?.
>>>>>
>>>>> regards.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> -------------
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Nvda-devel mailing list
>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/nvda-devel
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Nvda-devel mailing list
>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/nvda-devel
>>>>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Nvda-devel mailing list
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/nvda-devel
>>>>
>>>
>>>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Nvda-devel mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/nvda-devel
>>>
>>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
>> _______________________________________________
>> Nvda-devel mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/nvda-devel
>>
>


--
Michael A. Ray
Analyst/Programmer
Witley, Surrey, South-east UK

Ham Radio Call-sign: G4XBF, licensed since 1982

The box said: 'install Windows XP, 7 or better'. So I installed Linux

Raspberry VI:
http://www.raspberryvi.org/
NVDA, the best free screen-reader in the world:
http://www.nvda-project.org/




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Re: about health and NVDA voices

criss
hello. well, I sayd you, my friends show me no formal text, is not a papper,
for that I asked here. my question is if you meet a formal document with
this teme. also the text is in spanish.

regards.

-----Mensaje original-----
From: Joseph Lee
Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2014 1:04 PM
To: 'NVDA screen reader development'
Subject: Re: [Nvda-devel] about health and NVDA voices

Hi,
I think we're talking about two different threads here: the original post
claims that the poster's friend mentioned an article saying that prolonged
exposure to synthetic speech causes hearing issues (which depends on speech
volume, duration, etc.), and now the below post refers to audible
frequencies, which are two different things. Personally, what I'd like to
know is where this article is so we can verify what your friend claims, and
without that, I think we should put this to rest. So I'd like to kindly ask:
could you ask your friend where this info comes from? As for claims of
hearing issues as a result of prolonged exposure to synthetic speech, I'll
not go there as there are numerous factors which influences this (one advice
I'd give: take frequent rests; this is more so if you're working on
something and need to use speech synthesizers, especially in environments
such as reading, coding, web browsing, etc.).
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: crisspro [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2014 9:44 AM
To: NVDA screen reader development
Subject: Re: [Nvda-devel] about health and NVDA voices

hello. well, a rison is for waves morph when is irregular, taht is in the
text. you know there is a test to ear. the human have to listen a sound
frecuensy in the life. if you are:

0 - 8 years old you have to listen   between 20000 - 19500 Hz.
9 - 18 years old. you have to listen between 19500 - 18000 Hz.
18 - 25 years old. you have to listen between 18000 - 17000 hz.
25 - 35 years old. you have to listen between 17000 - 16000 hz.
35 - 45 years old. you have to listen between 16000 - 15000 hz.
45 - 60 years old. you have to listen between 15000 - 13500 hz etc...

if you want to listen this sounds, go to:

http://onlinetonegenerator.com/

you have o change the number 440 and put the numer to your category, next
press play to listen and stop buton to finich. you have to use firefox or
google chrome, don't working with internet explorer.

regards.



-----Mensaje original-----
From: Michael A Ray
Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2014 8:56 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Nvda-devel] about health and NVDA voices


This sounds a bit like the reasons drug manufacturers list so many
possible side-effects on medication packaging.  If one person in a
million lost all their teeth when they swallowed one pill then that goes
on the list.

So, if one person in a million gets a tumour, or hearing damage, and
they just happen to have been listening to a speech synthesiser for a
number of years, some will blame it on the synth.

No account for the fact they have also been breathing pollution for
decades, living near electricity pylons since they were born, drinking
soft-drinks laced with Aspartame like water, or smoking sixty a day for
forty years.

I suspect there is nothing but circumstantial evidence to support any
claim that espeak or Jaws cause anything more than fatigue.

What we do know is that prolonged exposure to sound above a certain
level damages hearing.  But that's the same whether it's espeak or a
duck quacking in your ear.

We are living in an increasingly litigious world.  Manufacturers have to
be over-cautious about warnings, and users are all too ready to make
outlandish claims because they have dollar signs in their eyes.

Mike



On 16/08/2014 04:29, Brendon Donohue wrote:

> The  development of new versions of NVDA. What do you want to know about
> it?
>
> Thank you.
>
> Brendon Donohue.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: mr. Chikodinaka Oguledo [mailto:[hidden email]]
> Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2014 1:27 PM
> To: NVDA screen reader development
> Subject: Re: [Nvda-devel] about health and NVDA voices
>
> what is NVDA deveal?
>
> On 8/15/14, Alex H. <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> LOL! :)
>>
>> I've been using synthetic speech since 2000, and a variety of voices
>> and fast rates. Sure, I get a headache after a few hours of listening
>> to eSpeak at max rate, but who doesn't? I still do quite well in
>> hearing tests and happen to listen to that evil devil metal music at
>> very loud volumes at times, and no issues.
>>
>> I try and listen to my TTS at a quiet volume wherever possible to
>> avoid any general long term effects caused by exposure to loud sounds,
>> or use a Braille display when one's available.
>>
>> I wanna see a link. Pretty sure this is a bunch of whining, though.
>> Sure it's not that audio game they've been playing at max volume for
>> 23 hours each day?
>>
>> Alex
>>
>> On 8/15/14, Amanda Lacy <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> I have a brain tumor. I'm telling you it's because of prolonged exposure
>>> to JAWS for Windows. The rehab agencies don't want you to know!
>>> On 8/15/2014 7:10 PM, Sarah k Alawami wrote:
>>>> I to am very schectable. Sure tha tlistening for long periods can cause
>>>> hearing los, I shoudl know, I have it, just like reading for a long
>>>> time
>>>> wiht out rest for the eyes will cause damage.  but yeah do you have a
>>>> link
>>>> to an article as, right now it sounds like a bunch of mush to me.
>>>>
>>>> There is no evidence that this can or  has hapepend in the past.  So
>>>> until
>>>> we flip, I want written proof this happens with evidence, stats, a
>>>> controled experiment, etc etc etc.
>>>> On Aug 15, 2014, at 10:55 AM, Joseph Lee <[hidden email]>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>> I'm a bit skeptical.  Do you know where your friends got this
>>>>> information, like the address for an article or from a doctor?
>>>>> A possible complications I see would be hearing issues after
>>>>> listening to the synthesizer for a long time.
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>> Joseph
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: Amanda Lacy <[hidden email]
>>>>> To: NVDA screen reader development
>>>>> <[hidden email]
>>>>> Date sent: Fri, 15 Aug 2014 12:34:37 -0500
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Nvda-devel] about health and NVDA voices
>>>>>
>>>>> Hmm.  Is it possible for speech synthesizers to emit
>>>>> seizure-inducing sounds?
>>>>> On 8/15/2014 12:18 PM, crisspro wrote:
>>>>> Hello every body.  I need information please.  I don't know if
>>>>> this
>>>>> information is trwe o false, but a friends show me a text.  says
>>>>> that
>>>>> some sintes voices like eloquence o speack, get problems to ear,
>>>>> because when people put so speed this voices then can get bigger
>>>>> problems.  the information says that diferents health
>>>>> organizations in
>>>>> the world tell about this problems, but i don't know if is trwe.
>>>>> do
>>>>> you meet a investigation, a pappers or any formal information?.
>>>>>
>>>>> regards.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> -------------
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Nvda-devel mailing list
>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/nvda-devel
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Nvda-devel mailing list
>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/nvda-devel
>>>>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Nvda-devel mailing list
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/nvda-devel
>>>>
>>>
>>>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Nvda-devel mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/nvda-devel
>>>
>>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
>> _______________________________________________
>> Nvda-devel mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/nvda-devel
>>
>


--
Michael A. Ray
Analyst/Programmer
Witley, Surrey, South-east UK

Ham Radio Call-sign: G4XBF, licensed since 1982

The box said: 'install Windows XP, 7 or better'. So I installed Linux

Raspberry VI:
http://www.raspberryvi.org/
NVDA, the best free screen-reader in the world:
http://www.nvda-project.org/




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Re: about health and NVDA voices

mk360
Spanish? well, that is better for me...
El 16/08/2014 14:36, crisspro escribió:

> hello. well, I sayd you, my friends show me no formal text, is not a papper,
> for that I asked here. my question is if you meet a formal document with
> this teme. also the text is in spanish.
>
> regards.
>
> -----Mensaje original-----
> From: Joseph Lee
> Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2014 1:04 PM
> To: 'NVDA screen reader development'
> Subject: Re: [Nvda-devel] about health and NVDA voices
>
> Hi,
> I think we're talking about two different threads here: the original post
> claims that the poster's friend mentioned an article saying that prolonged
> exposure to synthetic speech causes hearing issues (which depends on speech
> volume, duration, etc.), and now the below post refers to audible
> frequencies, which are two different things. Personally, what I'd like to
> know is where this article is so we can verify what your friend claims, and
> without that, I think we should put this to rest. So I'd like to kindly ask:
> could you ask your friend where this info comes from? As for claims of
> hearing issues as a result of prolonged exposure to synthetic speech, I'll
> not go there as there are numerous factors which influences this (one advice
> I'd give: take frequent rests; this is more so if you're working on
> something and need to use speech synthesizers, especially in environments
> such as reading, coding, web browsing, etc.).
> Cheers,
> Joseph
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: crisspro [mailto:[hidden email]]
> Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2014 9:44 AM
> To: NVDA screen reader development
> Subject: Re: [Nvda-devel] about health and NVDA voices
>
> hello. well, a rison is for waves morph when is irregular, taht is in the
> text. you know there is a test to ear. the human have to listen a sound
> frecuensy in the life. if you are:
>
> 0 - 8 years old you have to listen   between 20000 - 19500 Hz.
> 9 - 18 years old. you have to listen between 19500 - 18000 Hz.
> 18 - 25 years old. you have to listen between 18000 - 17000 hz.
> 25 - 35 years old. you have to listen between 17000 - 16000 hz.
> 35 - 45 years old. you have to listen between 16000 - 15000 hz.
> 45 - 60 years old. you have to listen between 15000 - 13500 hz etc...
>
> if you want to listen this sounds, go to:
>
> http://onlinetonegenerator.com/
>
> you have o change the number 440 and put the numer to your category, next
> press play to listen and stop buton to finich. you have to use firefox or
> google chrome, don't working with internet explorer.
>
> regards.
>
>
>
> -----Mensaje original-----
> From: Michael A Ray
> Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2014 8:56 AM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Nvda-devel] about health and NVDA voices
>
>
> This sounds a bit like the reasons drug manufacturers list so many
> possible side-effects on medication packaging.  If one person in a
> million lost all their teeth when they swallowed one pill then that goes
> on the list.
>
> So, if one person in a million gets a tumour, or hearing damage, and
> they just happen to have been listening to a speech synthesiser for a
> number of years, some will blame it on the synth.
>
> No account for the fact they have also been breathing pollution for
> decades, living near electricity pylons since they were born, drinking
> soft-drinks laced with Aspartame like water, or smoking sixty a day for
> forty years.
>
> I suspect there is nothing but circumstantial evidence to support any
> claim that espeak or Jaws cause anything more than fatigue.
>
> What we do know is that prolonged exposure to sound above a certain
> level damages hearing.  But that's the same whether it's espeak or a
> duck quacking in your ear.
>
> We are living in an increasingly litigious world.  Manufacturers have to
> be over-cautious about warnings, and users are all too ready to make
> outlandish claims because they have dollar signs in their eyes.
>
> Mike
>
>
>
> On 16/08/2014 04:29, Brendon Donohue wrote:
>> The  development of new versions of NVDA. What do you want to know about
>> it?
>>
>> Thank you.
>>
>> Brendon Donohue.
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: mr. Chikodinaka Oguledo [mailto:[hidden email]]
>> Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2014 1:27 PM
>> To: NVDA screen reader development
>> Subject: Re: [Nvda-devel] about health and NVDA voices
>>
>> what is NVDA deveal?
>>
>> On 8/15/14, Alex H. <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> LOL! :)
>>>
>>> I've been using synthetic speech since 2000, and a variety of voices
>>> and fast rates. Sure, I get a headache after a few hours of listening
>>> to eSpeak at max rate, but who doesn't? I still do quite well in
>>> hearing tests and happen to listen to that evil devil metal music at
>>> very loud volumes at times, and no issues.
>>>
>>> I try and listen to my TTS at a quiet volume wherever possible to
>>> avoid any general long term effects caused by exposure to loud sounds,
>>> or use a Braille display when one's available.
>>>
>>> I wanna see a link. Pretty sure this is a bunch of whining, though.
>>> Sure it's not that audio game they've been playing at max volume for
>>> 23 hours each day?
>>>
>>> Alex
>>>
>>> On 8/15/14, Amanda Lacy <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>> I have a brain tumor. I'm telling you it's because of prolonged exposure
>>>> to JAWS for Windows. The rehab agencies don't want you to know!
>>>> On 8/15/2014 7:10 PM, Sarah k Alawami wrote:
>>>>> I to am very schectable. Sure tha tlistening for long periods can cause
>>>>> hearing los, I shoudl know, I have it, just like reading for a long
>>>>> time
>>>>> wiht out rest for the eyes will cause damage.  but yeah do you have a
>>>>> link
>>>>> to an article as, right now it sounds like a bunch of mush to me.
>>>>>
>>>>> There is no evidence that this can or  has hapepend in the past.  So
>>>>> until
>>>>> we flip, I want written proof this happens with evidence, stats, a
>>>>> controled experiment, etc etc etc.
>>>>> On Aug 15, 2014, at 10:55 AM, Joseph Lee <[hidden email]>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>> I'm a bit skeptical.  Do you know where your friends got this
>>>>>> information, like the address for an article or from a doctor?
>>>>>> A possible complications I see would be hearing issues after
>>>>>> listening to the synthesizer for a long time.
>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>> Joseph
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: Amanda Lacy <[hidden email]
>>>>>> To: NVDA screen reader development
>>>>>> <[hidden email]
>>>>>> Date sent: Fri, 15 Aug 2014 12:34:37 -0500
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Nvda-devel] about health and NVDA voices
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hmm.  Is it possible for speech synthesizers to emit
>>>>>> seizure-inducing sounds?
>>>>>> On 8/15/2014 12:18 PM, crisspro wrote:
>>>>>> Hello every body.  I need information please.  I don't know if
>>>>>> this
>>>>>> information is trwe o false, but a friends show me a text.  says
>>>>>> that
>>>>>> some sintes voices like eloquence o speack, get problems to ear,
>>>>>> because when people put so speed this voices then can get bigger
>>>>>> problems.  the information says that diferents health
>>>>>> organizations in
>>>>>> the world tell about this problems, but i don't know if is trwe.
>>>>>> do
>>>>>> you meet a investigation, a pappers or any formal information?.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> regards.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> -------------
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Nvda-devel mailing list
>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/nvda-devel
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Nvda-devel mailing list
>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/nvda-devel
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Nvda-devel mailing list
>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/nvda-devel
>>>>>
>>>>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Nvda-devel mailing list
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/nvda-devel
>>>>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Nvda-devel mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/nvda-devel
>>>
>


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