FW: [win10+Insiders] A rather sad state for braille

classic Classic list List threaded Threaded
5 messages Options
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

FW: [win10+Insiders] A rather sad state for braille

Joseph Lee
Hi,
Anyone have any ideas about this? Thanks.

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Devin Prater
Sent: Saturday, June 24, 2017 11:52 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [win10+Insiders] A rather sad state for braille

Hi all. I'm slightly frustrated right now, but I'lltry to keep thz objective as possible. So, I have a 2 year old and barely used Vario Ultra, and a new Braille Note Touch. The touch only works as a braille display with Waws, not with Narrator nor the more mature NVDA. This is disappointing, as NVDA's braille implimentation allows it to show formatting information in the original braille code, not the dots 7 and 8 workaround that Jaws uses. This is especally great in web pages, emails, and other rich text, because it gives text at least a little flavor from the black and whiteness of speech and unformatted braille. So, I went online and saw that yes, braille displays are important, but since the Touch is "new," it's nothing to worry about yet, even though Jaws has a driver. I suppose Narrator, the other free option, not having a driver is good for that image as well, but still, I, a user, has one, and it is 6 months, almost 7, after the last comment on that NVDA issue. It's just so frustrating how little braille is given attention in the free screen reader world. Ah well, I suppose you get what you pay for sometimes, although the way NVDA shows formatting info, using Liblouis, is quite better than Jaws, although I wonder if I change the braille table to that used in Liblouis, if Jaws's formatting showing skills would improve. I'll have to try that. But that still is no excuse for NVDA and Narrator to kind of put the Braille Note Touch on the "oh no one uses it yet so we have a long while to put this off," kind of deal.

Devin Prater

Assistive Technology Instructor in training at World Services for the BLIND, JAWS certified

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Groups.io Links:

You receive all messages sent to this group.

View/Reply Online (#922): https://win10.groups.io/g/Insiders/message/922
View All Messages In Topic (1): https://win10.groups.io/g/Insiders/topic/5407901
Mute This Topic: https://groups.io/mt/5407901/568 New Topic: https://win10.groups.io/g/Insiders/post

Change Your Subscription: https://win10.groups.io/g/Insiders/editsub/568
Group Home: https://win10.groups.io/g/Insiders
Contact Group Owner: [hidden email] Terms of Service: https://groups.io/static/tos
Unsubscribe: https://win10.groups.io/g/Insiders/leave/41157/754674227/xyzzy
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-



------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
Nvda-devel mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/nvda-devel
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: FW: [win10+Insiders] A rather sad state for braille

Francisco R. Del Roio
Hello,

The problem is that most people use software voice in place of Braille.

With the cash of a Braille display I can buy two notebooks like the mine.

This makes difficult to track these kind of things.

Cheers,




Enviado desde mi Samsung Mobile de Claro


-------- Mensaje original --------
De: Joseph Lee <[hidden email]>
Fecha: 26/6/17 12:22 PM (GMT-03:00)
A: 'NVDA screen reader development' <[hidden email]>
Asunto: [Nvda-devel] FW: [win10+Insiders] A rather sad state for braille

Hi,
Anyone have any ideas about this? Thanks.

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Devin Prater
Sent: Saturday, June 24, 2017 11:52 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [win10+Insiders] A rather sad state for braille

Hi all. I'm slightly frustrated right now, but I'lltry to keep thz objective as possible. So, I have a 2 year old and barely used Vario Ultra, and a new Braille Note Touch. The touch only works as a braille display with Waws, not with Narrator nor the more mature NVDA. This is disappointing, as NVDA's braille implimentation allows it to show formatting information in the original braille code, not the dots 7 and 8 workaround that Jaws uses. This is especally great in web pages, emails, and other rich text, because it gives text at least a little flavor from the black and whiteness of speech and unformatted braille. So, I went online and saw that yes, braille displays are important, but since the Touch is "new," it's nothing to worry about yet, even though Jaws has a driver. I suppose Narrator, the other free option, not having a driver is good for that image as well, but still, I, a user, has one, and it is 6 months, almost 7, after the last comment on that NVDA issue. It's just so frustrating how little braille is given attention in the free screen reader world. Ah well, I suppose you get what you pay for sometimes, although the way NVDA shows formatting info, using Liblouis, is quite better than Jaws, although I wonder if I change the braille table to that used in Liblouis, if Jaws's formatting showing skills would improve. I'll have to try that. But that still is no excuse for NVDA and Narrator to kind of put the Braille Note Touch on the "oh no one uses it yet so we have a long while to put this off," kind of deal.

Devin Prater

Assistive Technology Instructor in training at World Services for the BLIND, JAWS certified

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Groups.io Links:

You receive all messages sent to this group.

View/Reply Online (#922): https://win10.groups.io/g/Insiders/message/922
View All Messages In Topic (1): https://win10.groups.io/g/Insiders/topic/5407901
Mute This Topic: https://groups.io/mt/5407901/568 New Topic: https://win10.groups.io/g/Insiders/post

Change Your Subscription: https://win10.groups.io/g/Insiders/editsub/568
Group Home: https://win10.groups.io/g/Insiders
Contact Group Owner: Insiders+[hidden email] Terms of Service: https://groups.io/static/tos
Unsubscribe: https://win10.groups.io/g/Insiders/leave/41157/754674227/xyzzy
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-



------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
Nvda-devel mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/nvda-devel

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
Nvda-devel mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/nvda-devel
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: FW: [win10+Insiders] A rather sad state for braille

James Teh
Let's clarify some things here.
Braille display manufacturers write drivers for JAWS, a paid product. In contrast, we (the NVDA developers) must write the NVDA drivers, a process which is somewhat time consuming. We do not receive a cent of the price you pay to purchase the braille display, despite the significant profit they make. Some of the manufacturers at least loan us a display to work with and perhaps answer technical questions, but that's as far as it goes. Our priorities are necessarily determined somewhat by paid contracts, followed by other work we can squeeze in based on the needs of the majority of our users. If you're desperately frustrated about NVDA's lack of support for braille displays, perhaps you should emphasise the importance of this to your braille display manufacturer, who after all charges a significant price for their products.

Jamie


Sent from a mobile device

On 27 Jun 2017, at 2:38 am, francisco del roio <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hello,

The problem is that most people use software voice in place of Braille.

With the cash of a Braille display I can buy two notebooks like the mine.

This makes difficult to track these kind of things.

Cheers,




Enviado desde mi Samsung Mobile de Claro


-------- Mensaje original --------
De: Joseph Lee <[hidden email]>
Fecha: 26/6/17 12:22 PM (GMT-03:00)
A: 'NVDA screen reader development' <[hidden email]>
Asunto: [Nvda-devel] FW: [win10+Insiders] A rather sad state for braille

Hi,
Anyone have any ideas about this? Thanks.

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Devin Prater
Sent: Saturday, June 24, 2017 11:52 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [win10+Insiders] A rather sad state for braille

Hi all. I'm slightly frustrated right now, but I'lltry to keep thz objective as possible. So, I have a 2 year old and barely used Vario Ultra, and a new Braille Note Touch. The touch only works as a braille display with Waws, not with Narrator nor the more mature NVDA. This is disappointing, as NVDA's braille implimentation allows it to show formatting information in the original braille code, not the dots 7 and 8 workaround that Jaws uses. This is especally great in web pages, emails, and other rich text, because it gives text at least a little flavor from the black and whiteness of speech and unformatted braille. So, I went online and saw that yes, braille displays are important, but since the Touch is "new," it's nothing to worry about yet, even though Jaws has a driver. I suppose Narrator, the other free option, not having a driver is good for that image as well, but still, I, a user, has one, and it is 6 months, almost 7, after the last comment on that NVDA issue. It's just so frustrating how little braille is given attention in the free screen reader world. Ah well, I suppose you get what you pay for sometimes, although the way NVDA shows formatting info, using Liblouis, is quite better than Jaws, although I wonder if I change the braille table to that used in Liblouis, if Jaws's formatting showing skills would improve. I'll have to try that. But that still is no excuse for NVDA and Narrator to kind of put the Braille Note Touch on the "oh no one uses it yet so we have a long while to put this off," kind of deal.

Devin Prater

Assistive Technology Instructor in training at World Services for the BLIND, JAWS certified

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Groups.io Links:

You receive all messages sent to this group.

View/Reply Online (#922): https://win10.groups.io/g/Insiders/message/922
View All Messages In Topic (1): https://win10.groups.io/g/Insiders/topic/5407901
Mute This Topic: https://groups.io/mt/5407901/568 New Topic: https://win10.groups.io/g/Insiders/post

Change Your Subscription: https://win10.groups.io/g/Insiders/editsub/568
Group Home: https://win10.groups.io/g/Insiders
Contact Group Owner: [hidden email] Terms of Service: https://groups.io/static/tos
Unsubscribe: https://win10.groups.io/g/Insiders/leave/41157/754674227/xyzzy
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-



------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
Nvda-devel mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/nvda-devel
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
Nvda-devel mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/nvda-devel

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
Nvda-devel mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/nvda-devel
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: FW: [win10+Insiders] A rather sad state for braille

Daniel Gartmann

 

 

Done. I just sent in a request for the BrailleNote Touch to be supported. I sent it via our national dealer.

 

Daniel

 

 

Fra: James Teh [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sendt: 26. juni 2017 23:28
Til: NVDA screen reader development <[hidden email]>
Emne: Re: [Nvda-devel] FW: [win10+Insiders] A rather sad state for braille

 

Let's clarify some things here.

Braille display manufacturers write drivers for JAWS, a paid product. In contrast, we (the NVDA developers) must write the NVDA drivers, a process which is somewhat time consuming. We do not receive a cent of the price you pay to purchase the braille display, despite the significant profit they make. Some of the manufacturers at least loan us a display to work with and perhaps answer technical questions, but that's as far as it goes. Our priorities are necessarily determined somewhat by paid contracts, followed by other work we can squeeze in based on the needs of the majority of our users. If you're desperately frustrated about NVDA's lack of support for braille displays, perhaps you should emphasise the importance of this to your braille display manufacturer, who after all charges a significant price for their products.

 

Jamie



Sent from a mobile device


On 27 Jun 2017, at 2:38 am, francisco del roio <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hello,

 

The problem is that most people use software voice in place of Braille.

 

With the cash of a Braille display I can buy two notebooks like the mine.

 

This makes difficult to track these kind of things.

 

Cheers,

 

 

 

 

Enviado desde mi Samsung Mobile de Claro

 

 

-------- Mensaje original --------

De: Joseph Lee <[hidden email]>

Fecha: 26/6/17 12:22 PM (GMT-03:00)

A: 'NVDA screen reader development' <[hidden email]>

Asunto: [Nvda-devel] FW: [win10+Insiders] A rather sad state for braille

 

Hi,
Anyone have any ideas about this? Thanks.

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Devin Prater
Sent: Saturday, June 24, 2017 11:52 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [win10+Insiders] A rather sad state for braille

Hi all. I'm slightly frustrated right now, but I'lltry to keep thz objective as possible. So, I have a 2 year old and barely used Vario Ultra, and a new Braille Note Touch. The touch only works as a braille display with Waws, not with Narrator nor the more mature NVDA. This is disappointing, as NVDA's braille implimentation allows it to show formatting information in the original braille code, not the dots 7 and 8 workaround that Jaws uses. This is especally great in web pages, emails, and other rich text, because it gives text at least a little flavor from the black and whiteness of speech and unformatted braille. So, I went online and saw that yes, braille displays are important, but since the Touch is "new," it's nothing to worry about yet, even though Jaws has a driver. I suppose Narrator, the other free option, not having a driver is good for that image as well, but still, I, a user, has one, and it is 6 months, almost 7, after the last comment on that NVDA issue. It's just so frustrating how little braille is given attention in the free screen reader world. Ah well, I suppose you get what you pay for sometimes, although the way NVDA shows formatting info, using Liblouis, is quite better than Jaws, although I wonder if I change the braille table to that used in Liblouis, if Jaws's formatting showing skills would improve. I'll have to try that. But that still is no excuse for NVDA and Narrator to kind of put the Braille Note Touch on the "oh no one uses it yet so we have a long while to put this off," kind of deal.

Devin Prater

Assistive Technology Instructor in training at World Services for the BLIND, JAWS certified

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Groups.io Links:

You receive all messages sent to this group.

View/Reply Online (#922): https://win10.groups.io/g/Insiders/message/922
View All Messages In Topic (1): https://win10.groups.io/g/Insiders/topic/5407901
Mute This Topic: https://groups.io/mt/5407901/568 New Topic: https://win10.groups.io/g/Insiders/post

Change Your Subscription: https://win10.groups.io/g/Insiders/editsub/568
Group Home: https://win10.groups.io/g/Insiders
Contact Group Owner: [hidden email] Terms of Service: https://groups.io/static/tos
Unsubscribe: https://win10.groups.io/g/Insiders/leave/41157/754674227/xyzzy
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-



------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
Nvda-devel mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/nvda-devel

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot

_______________________________________________
Nvda-devel mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/nvda-devel


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
Nvda-devel mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/nvda-devel
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: FW: [win10+Insiders] A rather sad state for braille

Development mailing list
In reply to this post by James Teh
I have to say, that if I was a programmer I'd persevere with getting used to
refreshable displays of this sort, but I tend to find that most people who
have these displays have had them paid for by an employer or a government,
at least here in the UK and they nearly always go for Jaws as well. There is
still a problem with system admins not wanting to install open source
software on their systems especially  since the big ransom ware hack, even
though to my mind it was paid software and poor admin that left the door
ajar in the first place.


Another thing I have also noticed is quite a few people have been
considering some of the cheaper  displays supposedly coming 'any day now'
for the last couple of years, but still have not materialise to the masses
so to speak.
 Brian

[hidden email]
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
[hidden email], putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "James Teh" <[hidden email]>
To: "NVDA screen reader development" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Monday, June 26, 2017 10:27 PM
Subject: Re: [Nvda-devel] FW: [win10+Insiders] A rather sad state for
braille


Let's clarify some things here.
Braille display manufacturers write drivers for JAWS, a paid product. In
contrast, we (the NVDA developers) must write the NVDA drivers, a process
which is somewhat time consuming. We do not receive a cent of the price you
pay to purchase the braille display, despite the significant profit they
make. Some of the manufacturers at least loan us a display to work with and
perhaps answer technical questions, but that's as far as it goes. Our
priorities are necessarily determined somewhat by paid contracts, followed
by other work we can squeeze in based on the needs of the majority of our
users. If you're desperately frustrated about NVDA's lack of support for
braille displays, perhaps you should emphasise the importance of this to
your braille display manufacturer, who after all charges a significant price
for their products.

Jamie


Sent from a mobile device

> On 27 Jun 2017, at 2:38 am, francisco del roio <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> The problem is that most people use software voice in place of Braille.
>
> With the cash of a Braille display I can buy two notebooks like the mine.
>
> This makes difficult to track these kind of things.
>
> Cheers,
>
>
>
>
> Enviado desde mi Samsung Mobile de Claro
>
>
> -------- Mensaje original --------
> De: Joseph Lee <[hidden email]>
> Fecha: 26/6/17 12:22 PM (GMT-03:00)
> A: 'NVDA screen reader development' <[hidden email]>
> Asunto: [Nvda-devel] FW: [win10+Insiders] A rather sad state for braille
>
> Hi,
> Anyone have any ideas about this? Thanks.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf
> Of Devin Prater
> Sent: Saturday, June 24, 2017 11:52 AM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: [win10+Insiders] A rather sad state for braille
>
> Hi all. I'm slightly frustrated right now, but I'lltry to keep thz
> objective as possible. So, I have a 2 year old and barely used Vario
> Ultra, and a new Braille Note Touch. The touch only works as a braille
> display with Waws, not with Narrator nor the more mature NVDA. This is
> disappointing, as NVDA's braille implimentation allows it to show
> formatting information in the original braille code, not the dots 7 and 8
> workaround that Jaws uses. This is especally great in web pages, emails,
> and other rich text, because it gives text at least a little flavor from
> the black and whiteness of speech and unformatted braille. So, I went
> online and saw that yes, braille displays are important, but since the
> Touch is "new," it's nothing to worry about yet, even though Jaws has a
> driver. I suppose Narrator, the other free option, not having a driver is
> good for that image as well, but still, I, a user, has one, and it is 6
> months, almost 7, after the last comment on that NVDA issue. It's just so
> frustrating how little braille is given attention in the free screen
> reader world. Ah well, I suppose you get what you pay for sometimes,
> although the way NVDA shows formatting info, using Liblouis, is quite
> better than Jaws, although I wonder if I change the braille table to that
> used in Liblouis, if Jaws's formatting showing skills would improve. I'll
> have to try that. But that still is no excuse for NVDA and Narrator to
> kind of put the Braille Note Touch on the "oh no one uses it yet so we
> have a long while to put this off," kind of deal.
>
> Devin Prater
>
> Assistive Technology Instructor in training at World Services for the
> BLIND, JAWS certified
>
> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
> Groups.io Links:
>
> You receive all messages sent to this group.
>
> View/Reply Online (#922): https://win10.groups.io/g/Insiders/message/922
> View All Messages In Topic (1):
> https://win10.groups.io/g/Insiders/topic/5407901
> Mute This Topic: https://groups.io/mt/5407901/568 New Topic:
> https://win10.groups.io/g/Insiders/post
>
> Change Your Subscription: https://win10.groups.io/g/Insiders/editsub/568
> Group Home: https://win10.groups.io/g/Insiders
> Contact Group Owner: [hidden email] Terms of Service:
> https://groups.io/static/tos
> Unsubscribe:
> https://win10.groups.io/g/Insiders/leave/41157/754674227/xyzzy
> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> _______________________________________________
> Nvda-devel mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/nvda-devel
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> _______________________________________________
> Nvda-devel mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/nvda-devel



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


> _______________________________________________
> Nvda-devel mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/nvda-devel
>


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
Nvda-devel mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/nvda-devel